156 replies to this topic

[visionGT4]

Ton for ton, crit for crut clamTek will continue to sh1t all over anything IS can field. As long as Russ and Paul are in charge this wil always be the case.

The best thing about new tech announcement is these clan tear threads... easy mode tears are the best kind

Edited by visionGT4, 14 March 2017 - 10:55 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Khobai, on 14 March 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

except standard mechs are better than omnimechs. the only thing keeping it kindve balanced now is clans having better tech.

If you suddenly give IS the same tech as clans then omnimechs will need a new advantage. otherwise omnimechs will suck.

although clan standard mechs will likely be fine. but omnimechs are gonna need a serious buff.

Really, clan tech will still be better, omni's will still be at the top of the list, just like always. The tech is based off of clan tech, being IS it still wont be as good.

Come on Khobai, you know better than that.

[Emp Palpatines Left Deathstar]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

I also play both sides. And to be blunt, when I hear Clanners or IS whine that there is some agenda against one side of the other, I feel a strong urge to slap the hell out of them.

Clans are still stronger, at the top, than the IS, even with this. Tell me... what wonder gun did the IS just get that negates the KDK3 or Night Gyr?

First, I am not accusing PGI of having an agenda against the clan mechs. I said that I wish they had distributed more to the clan mechs. They clearly did not. I am also not referring to the weapons that will make them even (though the inner sphere ultras will be beast mode). I am referring to the MRM (MRM10/20/30/40????? ... Really?), the stealth armor, the different kinds of PPCs, the rocket launcher consumable, light and heavy gauss, and those awesome looking rotary autocannons.

The heavy lasers will be really nice if the clan mechs don't run as hot as they already do, and the ATM can POTENTIALLY replace the MRM range wise, but not in terms of volume of damage. But heavy gauss is gonna be crazy, and light gauss is going to be huge. The micropulse lasers will have a very niche role, and I don't see that being very beneficial on a wide scale.

To recap:

They are getting all the same stuff the clans already have (awesome). that makes them even when you include the new engine.

Items:

IS:

• 2 new armor types
  
• killer MRM
  
• brutal Rotary autocannons
  
• 2 superior gauss rifles.
  
• 2 new kinds of armor, one of them stealth
  
• And some killer PPC models
  
• consumable 10/15/20 rocket pack

clans:

• awesome Heavy lasers
  
• micro lasers
  
• sliding scale dmg atm 3/6/9/12

I don't disagree with the IS getting more stuff. I disagree with how much more they are getting in terms of really powerful and quality items. I think that with the items that are being distributed, that you will have the same imbalance in reverse

Edited by Hoss Chimp, 14 March 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Really, clan tech will still be better, omni's will still be at the top of the list, just like always. The tech is based off of clan tech, being IS it still wont be as good.

Come on Khobai, you know better than that.

clan tech wont still be better though. light fusion engine is a huge game changer.

i dont think you fully realize the huge impact its going to have on IS mech design.

So yeah omnimechs are gonna need a buff. or at least clans need new toys that dont suck like useless micro lasers.

Quote

awesome Heavy lasers

how are heavy lasers awesome?

they literally only help clan mechs that are severely lacking energy hardpoints.

if you have enough energy hardpoints, youre better off spamming non-heavy lasers than heavy lasers.

heavy lasers and micro lasers both fall into the category of being pretty damn useless. ER pulse lasers is what clans should get.

It would also be better if they gave clans XXL engines and made them lighter versions of clan xl engines except your mech is destroyed when it loses a side torso. basically the clan version of IS XL.

Edited by Khobai, 14 March 2017 - 11:12 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Hoss Chimp, on 14 March 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

I don't disagree with the IS getting more stuff. I disagree with how much more they are getting in terms of really powerful and quality items. I think that with the items that are being distributed, that you will have the same imbalance in reverse

Have you even looked at the trade-offs for some of those items?

The Light Gauss is 12 tons for an 8 damage weapon. The Heavy Gauss requires a slow STD engine because it has to be mounted in the side torso...and it's 18 tons all by itself. They fall to either side of the Clan Gauss Rifle. The new PPCs are similar and offer the performance of the Clan ER PPC ...split into three distinct packages so you only get one part of that Clan ER PPC at a time. Light Ferro and LFEs are linked at the hip, that's how the IS can get the same speed and durability as Clan 'Mechs for certain, limited build types (i.e. Laser boats). Rocket Launchers are gimmicky, kind of like Micro Lasers.

That leaves MRMs, Stealth Armor, and RACs to the Clans' ATMs and Heavy Lasers. Doesn't really look to be that big of a gap, if at all. We'll see.

Khobai, on 14 March 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

clan tech wont still be better though. light fusion engine is a huge game changer.

Not as big as you think it will be. The HPPC is more important, and even that only almost enables a match for the KDK-3.

[Khobai]

Quote

The HPPC is more important,

except you couldnt fit any of the new weapons like HPPC (10 friggin tons) without LFE

hence why LFE is a game changer. it enables you to use those weapons in the first place.

without the weight savings from LFE youd have to sacrifice a ridiculous amount of speed to fit HPPCs on most IS heavies.

So yeah LFE is a huge game changer. I stand by what I said.

Edited by Khobai, 14 March 2017 - 11:22 PM.

[visionGT4]

Khobai, on 14 March 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

clan tech wont still be better though. light fusion engine is a huge game changer.

i dont think you fully realize the huge impact its going to have on IS mech .

So lfe will normalise

Fatlas and the hairy bear?
Battlemaster and madIIc?
Bk and timby?
Warhammer (best heavy in the game according to pgi) and night gyr?
Griffon and hbkIIc?
Firestater and ach?

Get a grip dude, the sky is not falling your stuff will continue to hit harder, shoot further and weigh less. But dont worry brah pgi has your back, they wont allow any form of mechanical parity betwen the two tech bases.

ClamTek for life (yo)

[SIN Maruzen]

Ajantise, on 14 March 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

The balanced game will be hard on clan players. They are used to play with a big advantage. How will they survive if IS players have an engine as they already have?

I usually gimp you by taking your weapons out of the equation. Then go for your engine. What's the point of killing you just so you can drop into your second or third mech and reinforce, when I can make you a stick and you remember that eject button exists a minute later.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 14 March 2017 - 11:19 PM, said:

except you couldnt fit any of the new weapons like HPPC (10 friggin tons) without LFE

hence why LFE is a game changer. it enables you to use those weapons in the first place.

without the weight savings from LFE youd have to sacrifice a ridiculous amount of speed to fit HPPCs on most IS heavies.

So yeah LFE is a huge game changer. I stand by what I said.

I wouldn't be taking the HPPC on the LFE because I can't fit sufficient DHS to cool a pair of them on that engine. It has to remain XL. But that's fine for a pop-tart, you'll hardly see me anyway. With the HPPC alone, the IS might have run of the field at the mid-range game.

The most potent thing LFE lets you do is build a comparably damaging laser boat running at comparable speeds with comparable durability and comparable heat profile to a Clan one.

[Monkey Lover]

I dont see many people using the hppc. Its going to be too hot, to many slots and ghost heat.

People are using the clan ppc now because you can pack the mech full of 2 slot dhs. Then you add on the extra splash dmg is only 0.5 heat and you get a usable weapon.

This is still a big one IS didn't get 2 slot dhs and dont forget the no case in the arms/legs. If the crit system comes out from the pts people might start using them lol

Edited by Monkey Lover, 14 March 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Monkey Lover, on 14 March 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

I dont see many people using the hppc. Its going to be too hot, to many slots and ghost heat.

People are using the clan ppc now because you can pack the mech full of 2 slot dhs. Then you add on the extra splash dmg is only 0.5 heat and you get a usable weapon.

This is still a big one IS didn't get 2 slot dhs and dont forget the no case in the arms/legs. If the crit system comes out from the pts people might start using them lol

I don't expect the HPPC to do 10 damage with 5 splash. I expect it to deal a full 15 damage to one spot. That makes the weight and the heat worth it, even if I can only bring 18-20 DHS. Clan poptarts only run 15 DHS themselves, and that's pretty toasty for two cERPPC...but the added damage from the cGauss makes it worth it, too.

[Kin3ticX]

clans get heavy lasers

[kapusta11]

Heavy Gauss - short range and requires STD engine
Heavy PPC - I have a hard time imagining PGI making them do 15 damage and/or letting you fire 2 at the same time
Light Gauss - still heavy, laughable damage unless PGI buff it to at least 12
RAC5 - everyone is freaking out about how OP they might be so PGI will probably nerf the **** out of 'em.
LFE - still heavier than cXL
MRMs - will most likely be too slow to be used effectively at their optimal range which is not short range
SN PPC - hot brawling weapon, good luck with that
Stealth armor competes with Endo steel on anything heavier than light
Light Ferro Fibrous armor is a joke


On the other hand, at least clans got Heavy Large Laser which syncs better with ERML (range wise) and weight 2 tons less than LPL.

Also Clans got another mech that can carry Dual Gauss Dual PPC loadout AND it's all in high mounts AND mech itself won't die to ST loss AND it's relatively fast AND Gauss rifles won't explode because they're in the arms.

What did IS get? Annihilator. Yeah.

Edited by kapusta11, 15 March 2017 - 01:40 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

I don't expect the HPPC to do 10 damage with 5 splash. I expect it to deal a full 15 damage to one spot. That makes the weight and the heat worth it, even if I can only bring 18-20 DHS. Clan poptarts only run 15 DHS themselves, and that's pretty toasty for two cERPPC...but the added damage from the cGauss makes it worth it, too.

I guess a few might try it but i can't see it being used much. Very few are running 2x IS ppc right now and thats 20 pinpoint with only 4 more tons. Over all its not much of a game changer just another option.

I still think its very likely they will add splash and if that's the case it will be doa without a big heat decrease.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 March 2017 - 12:25 AM.

[Lykaon]

brroleg, on 14 March 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

most Clan mechs weakness is limited hardpoints,

What? you do know that average hardpoint number is SIX for I.S. mechs.

Mistlynx can have 5 hardpoints 2M 3E compared to a Commando 3A with 2E 2M (5 hardpoints)

Arctic Cheetah is most commonly deployed with 6E and ECM vs Spider 5D with 3E and ECM (3 hardpoints)

Kitfox (with hero pods) can have 5E 2M ECM and 3 AMS VS Urbanmech R60L with 4E 2B

Adder with 3E 2M vs Raven 2X with 4E 1M

Frequently the clan light mechs have as many or more hardpoints and the clan light weapons are superior.

Medium mechs?

one Nova prime arm has the hardpoints of an entire I.S. medium then add the other arm and some torso hardpoints and we get a clan medium with the hardpoints of two+ Inner Sphere mediums with 12E 4B

Stormcrow B right arm is another single omnipod with an entire mechs worth of hardpoints add in an A left arm and D side torso with a Prime head and we get 11E 3M ...yeah shortage of hardpoints right there.

Vipers can get up to 10E hardpoints

Ice ferret with 3E 2M (a bit light on hardpoints)

Shadowcat 2E 3M and ECM (but I will give you this one is a bit short on hardpoints)

Huntsman can easily get over 10 hardpoints

Heavy mechs? Yeah most of these can easily get 10+ hardpoints as well

Maddog 6M 4E

Ebon Jaguar 2B 7E 1M

Hellbringer 3B 6E 1M and ECM

Summoner 6E 1M (one example with fewer than 10 hardpoints but still 6+ total)

Night Gyr 7E 2B 2M

Linebacker 7E 3M

Timberwolf 6E 2B 4M

Assault mechs... Gargoyle C right arm alone has 6E hardpoints The A left arm has 4E that's 10 right there

Executioner similar to the Gargoyle has a single arm pod with 7E and can get up to 13E hardpoints

Warhawks are a smidge short on hardpoints but still over the six mark 6E and 3M are attainable.

Direwolf...we all know they don't lack in hardpoints with the stock prime having 11 hardpoints total.13E 4B and 2M are attainable.

So "Most clan mechs" is really 3 clan mechs and the rest are bloated with hardpoints.

[Appogee]

The changes will help IS catch up, but only somewhat.

Clan tech - especially in omnis - still has significant advantages in number and placement of hardpoints, weapon weight, range and slot requirements.

I play both sides. But I play Clan when I need to win.

[Imperius]

Ajantise, on 14 March 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

The balanced game will be hard on clan players. They are used to play with a big advantage. How will they survive if IS players have an engine as they already have?

I play in group queue I have no idea what people mean by the game will get harder. lol I vs clans in clan mechs all the time. Also my king crab killed mechs just fine.

I hope you all don't think you suddenly start winning.

The reason why balance will never be perfect is you can't balance people.

[Monkey Lover]

I see the heavy lasers coming i handy on a few clan mechs too. For example the ebon jag once you put 3 ballistics on it you only have 3 energy. Same with the timber,shadow cat and a lot of the 2c mechs like the hunchback with only 2 energy in the ct.


shadowcat, 6 heavy(or light) machine guns and 2 heavy lasers? sounds kind of fun

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 March 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

New tech most likely will not make it into game if there is a PTS and the community gets to respond.

So wanna buy a mech pack?

[SeventhSL]

Ajantise, on 14 March 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

The balanced game will be hard on clan players. They are used to play with a big advantage. How will they survive if IS players have an engine as they already have?

My IS mechs have a drop deck tonnage and quirks advantage that my clan mechs don't have. I would assume that equalising any clan tech advantage also means equalizing the additional hit points IS brings to the table.

I’m thinking as IS, I'll have to adjust to being able to survive a torso loss but losing them a lot quicker and suffering the same heat and speed penalties as clan mechs.

I'm thinking as Clan, I'll need to keep reminding myself that I don't have to take on a larger pool of hit points and win.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see how things play out.