It delivered most of what we'd expected, with a handful of items missing, and some happy surprises
How about we have a in depth look at which might have an impact on the game, base entirely on wild speculation!
Spheroid LBx family:
Spoiler
Shite
We know this, the LBx as a weapon is generally inferior to the single shot capabilities of the normal ACs, especially since the LB10x is the only one who is lighter.
No effect on popular builds without a LBx revamp
Spheroid UAC family:
Spoiler
Potential
They will likely still have a burst, but follow the UAC5 VS cUAC5 mentality= -1 shell to the burst
That is, a 2 shot UAC10 and a 3 shot UAC20
As a previously avid UAC10 user, I can say that 3 round bursts are reasonable to land at 950M/s
As for the 650 M/s Bowling Balls...well, you won't be using them at range!
They may end up different, but I feel this would be a solid starting place, and they would up the potential damage up for the Spheroid chassis.
Spheroid ER laser family:
Spoiler
Implementation Dependant
The isERML could be fantastic mid range skirmish weapon...or it could be hot garbage
The isSL is already most of the way to the isERSL, so there's a severe issue there. Same heat, same range, same damage...bloody hell, we ALREADY HAVE AN isERSL!
SL fudging aside, I expect the isERML to have 2x extended damage falloff, and to potentially exceed the cERML max range, but not damage. Heat and damage are likely to remain at 5 (to much chagrin)
Spheroid Streak family:
Spoiler
Meh
We know exactly what to expect here, functionally. F&F, 270M range, 3 & 4.5 tons
Likely better cooldowns than their Clam counterparts, potentially better velocity
Good at decimating Lights, and giving other targets a nice Damage Bukkacake
Spheroid Gauss family:
Spoiler
Implementation Dependent
hGauss requires a STD engine
STD engines are shite
This is an issue of Opportunity Cost, in what you sacrifice in being able to take a Heavy Gauss Rifle
At 18 tons and 11 Crits, very few things could take it effectively, let alone two
25 damage at 180M is quite impressive, but the falloff is heavier than most weapons.
25/20/10
6/13/20
That is, 0 damage at 600M, 20 until 390M, 25 for 0-180M
With the weight savings of a XL or LFE, you could instead get some of the way towards a second Gauss Rifle, for 30 damage at 660M.
But, if the Charge isn't any longer, and it has a fair damage falloff, it could be...a silly choice for silly people, but not a bad choice.
It hurts robots, after all.
Light Gauss, while Long Range, has poor damage.
12 tons (AC10, cGauss)
8 damage
750 Optimal range
Honestly...I can't help but feel this should have 3x max range (or, maybe 2.5, to 1875M)
Maybe even Chargeless, but that can be iterated on
It's a very heavy tonnage cost for very little damage.
Heck...maybe 3 KM/s velocity? Or 2500, to at least have a range accuracy bonus over the Gauss Rifle, if we leave it with a charge
This one might need damage fudging, or a lesser cooldown
Spheroid Rotary AC family
Spoiler
DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Solid potential
RAC5 at
10 tons
6 Slots
630M range
1 heat per 5 damage
PGI describes it as a typical Wind up Minigun, but also Wind Down...
Not sure about that second part. Bullets keep flying as you release the trigger?
I do not expect it to frontload 5 damage in a rapid fashion, but more smaller rounds. Not unlike a cAC, but more of a bullet hose.
Quote
Extremely rapid firing Autocannons with rotating barrels. They can jam if fired for too long. The spinning barrels will likely have a ramp up time before they start firing, and a ramp down time after they stop.
The wording may allow for a jam-less burst if you don't exceed the time, but may also be subject to RNGeesus like our other UACs.
The RAC2 stats are
8 tons
3 Slots
750M Range
1 Heat per 2 damage
I expect the heat to drop, and not to be too much weaker than the RAC5, perhaps just weaker damage shells and otherwise similar performance.
These could certainly make nasty mid range DPS monsters, depending on how cruel RNGeesus is, if he has any say at all
Spheroid and Clam Machine Gun Family
Spoiler
Could be good mediocre
The HMG sacrifices range for damage
The LMG sacrifices damage for range
Both could be useful, actually
If the LMG has a 300-400M range potential, it could supplement Laservomit as random Crit support when poking for a LOLpha. I mean, it's free damage, why not?
HMG would likely replace current MGs where applicable, because they're facehugging weapons regardless.
We could see some more significant changes, such as the HMG being poor at Critting, but significantly better against Armor, and vice versa for LMGs, but that's on the Underling.
Clam VS Spheroid MGs follow the typical approach, Clams weighing half as much.
Being a TON apiece for the Spheroid, Lights would probably say no.
At 0.5 tons for Clams, still a possible choice
LMGs are the same tonnage as normal MGs
Spheroid MRM family
Spoiler
Potentially good
Or garbage
PGIplz
10/20/30/40 damage missile launchers
These can maximize direct fire damage PER missile hardpoint, without any need to pay the LRM Taxes
There are many ways to go with these, including
Spread
Velocity
GH limits
Volley Fire
Personally, I would go for the powerful but poor recycle approach
Make them GOOD as mid range direct fire weapons, with solid velocity (to hit at 400M well), decent spread (let's say 3-4-5-5 Spread values, same as a non-Artemis cSRM6 at the highest)
But, add a duration to it, not much, but enough to split the missiles. Otherwise, you risk engaging Shitreg, which is bad with simultaneous explosions. Add a 0.05s delay (same as cLRMs) to fire a set of 5 missiles. That's almost nothing, but should spread the missiles out enough for calculations.
But, the Underling may choose a different approach
What can be said for certain is that it shouldn't be a waste to have a single Missile hardpoint anymore, if you want to take a large MRM launcher.
Rocket Launcher family
Spoiler
Huh?
I didn't expect these
They'll probably be Single Use MRMs, for practical purposes
Maybe more powerful, because of their single use nature, but if you have free tonnage and an empty missile slot...might be worth taking some
They come in 10/15/20 size
Tons
0.5/1/1.5
Crits
1/2/3
Heat
3/4/5
Range is all 360M
If they're given decent Spread and Velocity, might be worth grabbing a few on mechs which otherwise ignore the hardpoints
But, likely best to ignore them if they perform poorly
High unexpected
Or, 6 tons 4 Crits for 10 damage, -1 tons +1 Crits
It shares the min range, and max range with the PPC
Almost expecting a 3 GH limit, for 15 damage...but that doesn't sound right
Heavy PPC
15 damage
15 heat
10 tons
4 Crits
540M range
90M Min range
Hm...3 LPPCs for 9 tons, 6 Crits, 15 heat, 15 damage?
Or 1 hPPC for similar results?
I can't help but feel that there's some overlap on these weapons. More than likely a global GH link, so no mixing and matching PPCs in numbers greater than 2.
Velocities may or may not be the same
hPPC allows for a nasty punch for 1 hardpoint, which some mechs greatly need.
Snub Nose also fits in here
Its range profile is different, with a long-short range, which tapers off quickly, but 450M is where it does nothing
It has no Min range, and deals 10 damage.
2 Crits
6 Tons
10 Heat (likely lower in MWO)
PPC family seems to have a lot of overlap, and many similar characteristics when it's combining multiple LPPCs
Should be good, at least
Spheroid Light Engine
Spoiler
RIP STD
It itself will be fantastic, though
It's at 75% weight of a STD engine, to the 50% of isXL and cXL
That is to say, it's still inferior to the cXL, but shites all over the STD
Also allows for an AC20, or UAC20 to be ST mounted
I'm expecting reduced penalties compared to cXLs with ST loss, but personally, I'd go with none at all, and buff the STD to compensate
Powerful Spheroid tech
Spheroid Light Ferro Fibrous Armor
Spoiler
By Mecha Cthulhu...Clams OP
This is just as bad as isFF, but half as beneficial and half as costly
14 VS 7 Crits
12% VS 6% extra armour per ton
That's VS the Clam FF
7 Crits for 20% protection
Yes, LFF is under 1/3 what cFF gives you for the same cost
#PGIPLZno
But, practically speaking, if you have 7 Crits free, why not. It won't give you much (half of what FF would currently offer you), but it might make a Heatsink. On an Assault mech
Spheroid Stealth Armor
Spoiler
Magic Jesus Field incarnate, is that you?
I'm assuming this removes the ability to even have a Dorito, or at the very least, sets your "targetingFactor" to 0.0, while ECM currently gives you a 0.25
So, no matter how close a target gets, he'll never be able to target
I'm unsure how this would affect TAG (and guided weapons in general)
I'll assume they'll just have a bad time.
Also unsure if PGI will make them take the proper Crits, or just assign them floating.
It costs 1 H/s to use, rendering your TrueDubs into SHS
I'll assuming flipping J, to Counter, means it turns the Stealth Armor off
Potentially useful, but mostly for Potato Land
You'll need to turn it off when you actually Fight, because SHS are BAD
Spheroid Targeting Computers
Spoiler
Good
Identical to the Clam TCs, I'm assuming. Just give the Spheroid the capability to equip them.
They already have all the applicable Spheroid weaponry listed in their stats.
Flip
That
Flag!
Laser AMS (Clam & Spheroid)
Spoiler
It's...AMS, but hot
1.5 tons for the Sphere, 1 ton for Clams
Or, 1 AMS and a half ton of ammo for either, but in 1 Crit slot.
It's 5 and 7 heat, but I imagine it can be normalized, and generate 0.5 H/s when in use
Taking up 2.5 TrueDubs worth of cooling, but never heating you up.
Not a bad thing, but still not sure I'd use one
Clam Micro Lasers
Spoiler
It's so small!
0.25 and 0.5 tons, 1 Crit, 1 heat
2 and 3 damage
I'm thinking the damage might change, because the cSPL got that whole DOUBLE source damage thing going on (very nice that it's useful, unlike the Spheroid SPL)
These...might have a place for the hardpoint galore robots (like the glory which is the Piranha, Soon™), Nova, Exe
But, they may prove to just be a novelty. Source Range of 90/120 prevents their use, most of the time
Clam Heavy Laser family
Spoiler
Hot, Big, depends on implementation
Specifically, Duration
The Heavy Lasers have potential to be absolutely nasty for fast movers, to vomit damage and back off, or on mechs who have massive cooling, or just pathetic numbers of hardpoints
HSL is the weakest, as you'd expect.
90M, 3 heat, 6 damage
That's worse all around than the cSPL (double TT damage)
So, expect it to get a damage boost, and a burn increase. Maybe even 7 damage...matching the cERML
HML is the nasty one
10 Dam
7 Heat
2 Crits
1 Ton
270M
Duration is what makes or breaks this one
Already as hot as a MWO cERML stock, which may stay the same, but just a duration increase over it
HLL
16 Dam
18 Heat
3 Crits
4 Ton
450M
This has a bad Heat/Dam ratio
It will need adjusting, especially with the massively inflated cLPL damage (much like the SPL/HSL relation)
The effectiveness all depends on implementation. Don't expect much overlap with Pulse or ER lasers, as they are short range, high damage, probably higher facetime
Light Clam equipment?!
Spoiler
It's smaller, and has less range
Should be neat for some mechs.
LAP is listed as 90M detection range (VS 120 and 150)
It would probably have a shorter anti-ECM bubble as well.
Streak boats may prefer to keep the full size probe, but people who want Target Info should be fine with the LAP
Light Tag should be just as effective, but less range
It has a 270M range, which would actually make it very dangerous to use
I might consider it on my new ATM mechs, to get faster locks against ECM (and hopefully Stealth Armor) equipped mechs
Clam Advanced Tactical Missiles
Spoiler
Plz don't Bad
They should be powerful, with the given header:
Quote
Advanced Tactical Missile. A missile whose damage will vary based on the distance it travelled. Higher damage up close, lower damage at long range.
TT ATMs had 3 types of ammo, all with different range brackets.
In MWO, I'm expecting something very simple: Starting 3 damage, linear falloff, 3x range
So, 3 damage at 0M, 0 damage at 810M
They may change that, with the 1/2/3 damage values in whichever given range brackets, but we won't have ammo to fuss around with
Mechanically, I expect LRMs, possibly with more shallow arcs (or, arcs dependent on range, only more severely than LRMs currently are)
Straight trajectory at sub 200M mechs, sort of thing
I imagine they'll be locking, and I imagine the Artemis bug will still affect them fully
So, I plan to throw a couple on my Dual Gauss Scorch, add a Light Tag instead of a half ton Gauss Ammo, and get 25% Lock acquisition ATMs at 270M, and half duration at range
These might make me consider taking Locking Missiles, simply because they will be more reliable...hopefully
That took awhile...
TL:DR
Legacy Tech™ wise, the STD engine is my biggest concern, but the isSL family also has some issues
SL could be given a shorter range, and significantly shorter cooldown. Make it DPS instead of poke-y (but again, that's then the SPL niche)
STD is easy to fix:
Give the Engine quirks
That simple
Make it more durable, have better agility (with the decoupling of Engine Size, Engine Type could have an effect instead)
And, if all else fails, give it more cooling. Energy Boat might appreciate it, as would Brawlers.
LBx family has the issue of being bad. That's less of a LegacyTech™ issue and more a fundamental problem with the weapon system
UACs do have the potential of drowning out the isACs
That can be fixed by giving the ACs better stats in a non-damage fashion. Such as velocity. If they were 50% faster (random number) they could hit more reliably, and thus be more accurate instead of just brute forcing the damage out.
Can be applied to cACs as well as isACs. Both will be in a not-great place VS UACs
isNormal Laser family could likely use a heat decrease with the coming of isER lasers.
Remember the Slunchening of 2012? Most probably don't, but they still retain the 200% heat nerf, and the +1 heat to the isML as well.
Those could be reduced to 1 & 3
Gauss, I feel the normal Gauss would still remain the most powerful, without Stat Fudging. All could be made useful, IMO
RACs shouldn't eliminate the burst potential of large UACs, but the DPS role could see a shift away from normal ACs
MGs may have identity issues if damage and range are the only differences
MRMs could either replace SRMs entirely, or never compare. Progressive velocity was one suggestion, if it's a PGI programming possibility.
Rocket Launchers could be better MRMs which fire once, or just bad
PPC family has a strange amount of overlap, and yet almost identical stats when mixing LPPCs and the other types. Snub does offer something new, no min range for 10 heat
Ferro is still Terribad, but now it only costs the same for sub 1/3 the result!
TCs won't marginalize anything, and would hopefully be identical to cTCs
So...what are you worried about getting replaced? Really, it seems many have space for individual roles, or worthlessness. Only the Luffy comes to really replace anything outright
And no, being able to mount a isLB20x or Heavy Gauss cannot be the SOLE role for the STD engine to exist
It competes with the cXL, remember that.
Just realized something about stealth armor. What if while active it removes the HUD scrambling on enemy mechs when you get close? Would make ECM mechs even scarier for people without seismic.
I'm worried about IS UACs, personally. Specifically the 10 and 20. If they do not make them burst, then they will, hands down, be unquestionably superior options to standard IS AC, LBX, and Clan UAC even despite the higher weight and crit usage. The Class 20 would be outright broken if you could doubletap 20 pinpoint, frontloaded damage onto someone.
What I hope is that PGI simply chops down the burst by one bullet as compared to the Clan UAC family. So UAC2/5 stays at one shell, 10 fires two 5-point shells, and the 20 fires three 6.666 damage shells. That extra weight and bulkiness translating to larger shells fired makes sense, and gives them a noticeable damage clustering edge over the Clan UAC (less shells to spread, more damage per shell), without being strictly superior due to their weight and bulk.
Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 March 2017 - 11:10 PM.
Pariah Devalis, on 14 March 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:
I'm worried about IS UACs, personally. Specifically the 10 and 20. If they do not make them burst, then they will, hands down, be unquestionably superior options to standard IS AC, LBX, and Clan UAC even despite the higher weight and crit usage. The Class 20 would be outright broken if you could doubletap 20 pinpoint, frontloaded damage onto someone.
What I hope is that PGI simply chops down the burst by one bullet as compared to the Clan UAC family. So UAC2/5 stays at one shell, 10 fires two 5-point shells, and the 20 fires three 6.666 damage shells. That extra weight and bulkiness translating to larger shells fired makes sense, and gives them a noticeable damage clustering edge over the Clan UAC (less shells to spread, more damage per shell), without being strictly superior due to their weight and bulk.
You realize that turns the UAC/10 into a crappier UAC/5, right?
With a potentially higher chance to jam and a longer jam duration when a jam occurs?
Yes, yes it does.
So... do what us clanners do, and don't doubletap the UAC10 until you are willing to risk it? It still spits out twice the damage per trigger pull vs a UAC5, and retains the option to quadruple the damage output of an AC5. It's damage on tap. When you need it - usually. UAC rarely jam on the first doubletap. I mean, it happens, but not too often.
I bet the LPPC will be soon the non plus for the average pin point delivering mech - even with a Ghost Heat of 4 you save 2tons over the double PPC - although you need one slot more.
This make this weapon a good choice for Cicadas and similar "lights" -
Not a weapon but indirect LFE for IS will decrease the average TTK ingame - simple because every IS Mech will use LFE. Without quirks or penalties it is the same "no choice" as with DHS and ES.
Don't think that the "extra" LBX, Ultra (2 shots per shot for UAC10 4 when double tapping???) Streaks or ER for IS are even worth to be considered. The UACs will be vanquished by the RAC - simple because of the "ramp" and in MWO all ramps are nice linear and hardly logical
Pariah Devalis, on 14 March 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:
So... do what us clanners do, and don't doubletap the UAC10 until you are willing to risk it? It still spits out twice the damage per trigger pull vs a UAC5, and retains the option to quadruple the damage output of an AC5. It's damage on tap. When you need it - usually. UAC rarely jam on the first doubletap. I mean, it happens, but not too often.
Missing the point.
It's a 13-ton, 7-slot weapon. The most any Heavy 'Mech can reasonably bring is two and there won't be much room for anything else left over after ammo. The AC/40 BoomJager was a gimmick; this will be less of a gimmick because it doesn't have to get in your face, but it will still require an XL on whatever Heavy you choose and it also won't be dumping 40 instantaneous damage, it'll be 20+20. It's no worse than what happens when somebody pops you with a Warhammer running 2x AC/10 and four to six Medium Lasers, where we trade jam chance for heat, or than what happens when you get nailed by staggered PPC fire from a Warhawk. You have the opportunity to spread it
Even with three on an Assault, the most you are getting is 60 damage out in two volleys of 30, which can just as likely end up in between two and four different locations depending on how many are in the arms versus the torso. The only Assault which can run this is the Annihilator which by itself is bad but, even were it good, it would be no worse than a KDK-3. Except, again, it would require an XL and, unlike the KDK-3, that XL will get you killed when one side goes.
It's self-limiting already. There's no need to split it up further. Now if you want to say it should have a longer base cool-down, say 3 instead of 2.5 seconds, I'll be right there with you.
LOL at Clanners crapping their pants about potentially having to face competitive IS tech.
I play both sides. Every day. I have as many IS Mechs as I do Clan Mechs. I'm more of a Clanner than an ISer.
It's BLINDINGLY APPARENT - from every success metric that exists - that Clans have enjoyed superior technical advantages for years, despite the ridiculous quirks, tonnage restrictions and other workarounds that PGI has tried to use to offset them.
The new tech is finally a chance for IS to become competitive, without the need for workarounds.
I predict that Clan tech will remain superior, due to omni hardpoint numbers and optimisation, weapon weights, matched engine speeds etc. But I am glad there's a chance* the tech gap will be significantly narrowed.
* PGI could still stuff up this opportunity. We're dealing with a developer whose last balancing action was to nerf the Warhammer - while doing nothing about the Night Gyr. Clan whining OP.
most stuff especially lasers will be very much dpeneidng on their heat damage and beam duration ratio.
but light MG's I am seriously wondering what they should be for, long range tickeling?
But that are some exciting times coming, much stuff will change so the early times will be fun tinkering around until the meta establishes and spreads.
In answer to Mcgral's question, my fears are the STD engine. It's already and obviously useless on clan side and given practical necessity has for most competitive builds on the IS side been sidelined. Looking at my STD builds all but a few will benefit from LFE.
I think as fast as weapons there is potential for legacy tech in ISML (ERML) as well as SRMS (MRMS), but no point in worrying about it until we see the math. I suspect that the snPPC will all but eliminate the LPL for a lot of folks but that will depend on its range and heat values as well, so same thing. My cynical side tells me that PGI will release most of new tech weapons with inflated damage or other desired values to attract initial purchase, but that over time they will nerf the damage or really jack the heat so as to prevent blatant imbalance, but again I am taking a wait and see attitude.
With the skills tree still looming, I am not buying anything...even for cbills until there is a reason to think that PGI won't flip a coin, play some darts or decide that a new baseline of random quirk values needs to be installed; thus I am not really worried yet about legacy tech or the new tech's impact on the game. When we have some concrete stats to work with then maybe I will care/worry/become intrigued a bit more.
There was another thought for Clam Micro lasers: Make them into the laser machine guns
I can see that as a possible option, and would like to test it
Whether they're GH linked with the other lasers also affects their viability. If they're not, fill up everyone empty E hard point and up that short range LOLpha
1 - If a new weapon weighs more than its current in game variant or family member, then no matter what, the current lighter version is always going to have at least niche use, no matter how seemingly OP the new weapons stats are; so such weapons in my view are not a concern in re the creation of legacy tech.
2- weapons that do less damage than what is currently in game will not be a legacy tech concern.
That leaves:
3 - weapons that weigh the same or less than a current in game weapon and have similar capabilities but provide ANY benefit over that which currently exists are going to be the ones where there is potential problems. That's why I am thinking things like the IS ERML at presumably the same weight of a ML has potential to make the ML legacy tech, a snub nose PPC at less weight than a LPL or PPC has potential, ballistics are full of potential (not to mention precedent see clan ACs vs LBX and UACs).
Another thought: Clam Heavy lasers have little to no falloff distance
No damage at 300M for the HML, 500 for HLL
If they're kept powerful enough within their given bracket, it certainly makes them unique.
Range is a powerful tool, so removing that might be enough of a sacrifice
Another thought: Clam Heavy lasers have little to no falloff distance
No damage at 300M for the HML, 500 for HLL
If they're kept powerful enough within their given bracket, it certainly makes them unique.
Range is a powerful too, so removing that might be enough of a sacrifice
Assuming they are not smacked with super heat penalties or some crazy burn time negative.
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