6 replies to this topic

[G4LV4TR0N]

Is it true that if Gargoyle would have been 75t with exactly same armor then to reach same speed as it has, it would need 375XL engine that is 7t lighter than 400XL? With this Gargoyle would be 5 tons lighter and still have 2 tons pod space more while having nearly identical stats.

Any takes?

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 16 March 2017 - 12:58 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

G4LV4TR0N, on 16 March 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

Is it true that if Gargoyle would have been 75t with exactly same armor then to reach same speed as it has, it would need 375XL engine that is 7t lighter than 400XL? With this Gargoyle would be 5 tons lighter and still have 2 tons pod space more while having nearly identical stats.

Any takes?

all that is true, also its structure and armor would also be lighter due to smaller Mechs having less of each, it would also likely be slightly more responsive.

the Gargoyle's biggest problem when compaired to the Timber Wolf is that Timber has both Endo and Fero, while The Gargoyle has neither only fero, those 2 upgrades endo would give the Gargoyle an extra 6.6 4 tons, almost as much as the engine size diferance

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 16 March 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[The Basilisk]

An other case where a TT-ClassicBattletech mech does not or only very poorly translate into MWO.

It only barely does make sense in TT due to the Clan weapons beeing vastly supperior there and doesn't make any sense in MWO.

[The Basilisk]

Rogue Jedi, on 16 March 2017 - 02:17 AM, said:

[...]Timber has both Endo and Fero, while The Gargoyle has neither, [...]

Gargoyle has ferro only.

[Koniving]

(Mkay; had my lore rant. Gonna stop editing/adding).

The Basilisk, on 16 March 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

An other case where a TT-ClassicBattletech mech does not or only very poorly translate into MWO.

It only barely does make sense in TT due to the Clan weapons beeing vastly supperior there and doesn't make any sense in MWO.

There's a little more to it too which helps it make more sense in the source material and TT.

Spoiler

But like many things translated into MWO, with total weapons convergence, lack of guidance on standard SRMs, near total engine freedom on Battlemechs, and in general sheer scale of mechs as filters for that translation really leaves things difficult to impossible to translate given PGI's arbitrary and whimsical choice of their own Rosetta stone. (Tallest mech in Battletech up til 3065 is the Executioner at 14.4 meters while the Gargoyle is at 14.1 meters. Atlas 7th gen [AS7, not AS8] is at just under 14 meters; meanwhile the MWO mechs... MWO Mediums and Heavies are typically in the gargantuan Battletech Gargoyle's size or bigger and the MWO Gargoyle pushes 17 meters while assaults go up to just about 18 meters. Ever wonder why so many complaints came out about small barrel sizes compared to the mechs? The barrel sizes were scaled to [some] actual stated sizes in terms of girth. But the mechs are Gigantic and this is after the rescale that shrunk a lot of them.)
[Note: Mechs with both ferro and endo are taller than mechs with just ferro and significantly larger than those with neither; other fun lore notes... some mechs were just too small to fit double heatsinks [none shown there] and a large engine required a large body to accomodate it and thus you get size differences like the Shadow Hawk 2D and 5M; a difference of just over 2 meters in height with proportionate additional girth... sadly no Mechwarrior game has ever demonstrated this. It certainly would be more balanced on endo versus non-endo if it did].

Beyond this point is entirely a source material / lore perspective to help illustrate some of why the Gargoyle (and the large amount of Clan mechs that fail to have endo-steel) made (at least some) sense.

Spoiler

Consider this: In the Inner Sphere, including those secretly owned and run by Comstar, in 3050 there are less than 8 locations manufacturing Endo Steel among the 6 primary IS factions. Since some private companies own these, they are sold to those who can buy or made exclusive to the highest bidder.

The Clans have 10, among 12 Clan factions and some have more than one and they do not share. They fight each other and take it. What's more is... (*makes the journey now in Megamek*)
It would take 57 jumps to light speed to go from the closest Rassalhague planet/star of note to Strana Mechty (chosen as it is the overall Clan 'capital' so this is a good 'center point' for whatever Clan).
473.59 days would be required to make this trip (for an IS jumpship). 22 of which is actually traveling and the rest recharging to make sequential jumps and traveling toward each system's sun to make each sequential jump.
Total cost financially (just for the travel, nothing else) is 26,391,000 cbills (at 3045's rate as that's the campaign I had).

So, roughly around this amount of time time or to be safe about a year and a quarter to a year and a half for the Clans to resupply materials for repairs once their cache of equipment brought aboard ran out (and it does which is why Clan Battlemechs begin appearing on the field). So Timber Wolves would be among the first that would drop from use in battles of attrition should the Clans using them (Falcon and Wolf) fail to capture an endo-steel factory during their invasion. This is assuming the supplies left immediately after requesting and the transmission was instantaneous... which neither is true. A shame logistics has yet to show in FP and probably never will. It would really help to establish goals.

Gargoyle could be fixed and refixed and refixed with literally anything the IS had so any factory what-so-ever that produced military grade battlemech structure or ferro armor could be used for for repairs. What is more is the raw materials can be found on almost any mining operations that might exist. Also, despite its LostTech and rediscovered tech status, Ferro's been very easy to maintain large supplies of and factories are really plentiful. This is why Clans use mostly Ferro armor instead of Endo Steel. MUCH Easier to obtain, significantly easier to produce, and still has weight savings.

This said, the Gargoyle is a bit of a cluster, akin to the Inner Sphere Charger, the Gargoyle is effectively an 80 ton scout mech and light hunter even in tabletop. It was ideal for dealing with fast little pests going from 20 to 50 tons and anything heavier than that could prove to be a problem. (Especially since the IS 55 tonners are pretty known for 'brawling' in the literal melee sense while half the Clans looked down on melee in 'Mechs and could go about the same speed).

Edited by Koniving, 16 March 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[InspectorG]

Mr. Gargles in MWO?

I love how it looks but it isnt particularly strong.

SPL builds are fun, though.

[Leone]

InspectorG, on 16 March 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I love how it looks but it isnt particularly strong.

I beg to differ. A good brawling 'Goyle can wreck much havok. They're called a Man 'O War for a reason, cuz they can brawl it up what good.

~Leone.