21 replies to this topic

[ingramli]

So, when i started the topic last time asking people making the Clan' standard ACs single slug or not, they said, "naaah, IS' are heavier and bulkier, they should not be the same."

Fair enough. How about reducing the shells of CAC5, CAC10 and CAC20 by 1?

Before > After,
CAC5: 2 > 1 ( 1 shell does 5 damage)
CAC10: 3 > 2 (2 shells do 5 damage each)
CAC20: 4 > 3 (3 shells do 6.67 damage each)
(no change for CAC2 as double tap get less dps anyway)

Which would bring them in line with IS's UAC on number of shells. While still not single slug for CAC10 and CAC20, the CAC family now pack a more focus damage compare to their UAC equivalent, without being too "OP" (for CAC5, the heat generation can be nerfed if single slug is considered OP), what do you think?

[Lyoto Machida]

Bad, considering C-ACs shouldn't even exist at all in this game...

[The Lighthouse]

What I don't understand why normal Clan AC take MORE pod space than UAC. Like... wtf is this.

This is one of the examples that TT rules just did not translate well into the game.

[FunkyT]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 August 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Bad, considering C-ACs shouldn't even exist at all in this game...

Well, but they do exist. So might aswell bring them to a point, where they can actually be used, instead of being forever seen as a placeholder for ammo swapping, which was never finished.

Gotta say, I like OPs idea. That may already help them get out of obscurity and into usable territory.

Weren't there some cooldown buffs for c-ACs a while back which made them have less cooldown than IS-ACs?
If so, together with reducing the shell count, they may get viable after all.
If they still have the same cooldown as IS-ACs, maybe the shellcount could be reduced once more?

c-AC2 -> 1 shell
c-AC5 -> 1 shell
c-AC10 -> 1 shell
c-AC20 -> 2 shells

Would give Clans a little pinpoint potential on those ACs without getting the IS' favourite boom-builds (2x AC20) for less weight.
And I actually don't think this would make them too strong, since they would give up double tapping for more pinpoint. Plus, Clan mechs usually don't have high ballistic cooldown quirks, so there is not much to worry about I think.

Edited by FunkyT, 14 August 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Clan ACs should be single shot IMO. The tonnage/slot differences can be balanced in other ways.

[El Bandito]

REMOVE CACS. Just do it, PGI. Dont let the reminder of your incompetence stay in game.

[Y E O N N E]

The Lighthouse, on 14 August 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

What I don't understand why normal Clan AC take MORE pod space than UAC. Like... wtf is this.

This is one of the examples that TT rules just did not translate well into the game.

Because they are LB-X, not ACs. LB-X are all bigger than their standard counterparts save the 10, but the Clans have ridiculously tiny UACs, which is the bigger curiosity IMHO. I'm more curious about cUACs taking less space than even a standard IS AC from a game designer's perspective. It's not even consistent with everything else Clan. I could see them being the same weight so they are one ton and one slot smaller than IS UACs, but two to three tons lighter and one to three slots smaller than IS UACs and one to two tons lighter and one to three slots smaller than standard ACs? Loldumb.

[Khobai]

CACs should fire single slugs

but with longer cooldown and higher heat to balance out the longer range

Quote

REMOVE CACS. Just do it, PGI. Dont let the reminder of your incompetence stay in game.

why? IS has way more weapon options than clans.

making CACs actually useful would help reduce that disparity in weapon options

clans are supposed to have the capability to fire single slugs using the alternate fire mode of LBX. but since ammo switching isnt possible, I dont see the harm in making CACs a useful standalone weapon.

Quote

I'm more curious about cUACs taking less space than even a standard IS AC from a game designer's perspective

nothing curious about it really, clan tech is much better in tabletop

if IS wanted gud technology too they shouldnt have blown themselves up

Edited by Khobai, 14 August 2017 - 02:27 AM.

[FireStoat]

ingramli, on 14 August 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

So, when i started the topic last time asking people making the Clan' standard ACs single slug or not, they said, "naaah, IS' are heavier and bulkier, they should not be the same."

Fair enough. How about reducing the shells of CAC5, CAC10 and CAC20 by 1?

Before > After,
CAC5: 2 > 1 ( 1 shell does 5 damage)
CAC10: 3 > 2 (2 shells do 5 damage each)
CAC20: 4 > 3 (3 shells do 6.67 damage each)
(no change for CAC2 as double tap get less dps anyway)

Which would bring them in line with IS's UAC on number of shells. While still not single slug for CAC10 and CAC20, the CAC family now pack a more focus damage compare to their UAC equivalent, without being too "OP" (for CAC5, the heat generation can be nerfed if single slug is considered OP), what do you think?

I like this idea. I would also like to add to it. All clan mech quirks that give a bonus to the range and cooldown of LBX cannon should be applied to the placeholder clan AC's. This is currently not in the game and it should be.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 14 August 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

CACs should fire single slugs
nothing curious about it really, clan tech is much better in tabletop

if IS wanted gud technology too they shouldnt have blown themselves up

That's a lore justification, not a game design justification. And I am already referring to TT implicitly, since MWO doesn't deviate on slots/tons.

[Jay Leon Hart]

El Bandito, on 14 August 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

REMOVE CACS. Just do it, PGI. Dont let the reminder of your incompetence stay in game.

Alternatively, add the slug version of the LB10X to the IS side, because reasons

[SmoothCriminal]

+1 from me. Otherwise they are useless.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 August 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

That's a lore justification, not a game design justification.

If you want an in game justification, outside of tonnage and slots, IS versions are better.

That and when the clans came out, if it weren't for the better slot space, only a tiny amount of clan mechs would be able to use any of the weapons, because of the fixed slot/structure locations on the mechs.

Edited by Snowbluff, 14 August 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

CAC's should be single shot.

A single shot, into the trash where they belong.

Paul's "placeholder" should have never been carried over from PTS in the first place.

[Gas Guzzler]

Let me rephrase:

C-ACs should be single-shot to offer a different role from the UACs without being directly inferior.

/thread

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 14 August 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

If you want an in game justification, outside of tonnage and slots, IS versions are better.

That and when the clans came out, if it weren't for the better slot space, only a tiny amount of clan mechs would be able to use any of the weapons, because of the fixed slot/structure locations on the mechs.

Tonnage and slots matter a lot.

But, that isn't what I am getting at. What I am getting at is that the stats on the weapons in TT were mechanically ridiculous from the start and are a contributor to BV's adequacy issues and, by extension, the weirdo balance in MWO.

[Lucifaust]

Clan AC is inferior to: IS AC, clan UAC, IS UAC.

Clan AC is arguably superior to: LBX. (surprised?)

Clan AC should fire Less shots than c-UAC to give us some reason to use it. Currently, clan AC is clan UAC without the doublefire utility common to IS/clan uac's. Thus with less utility, c-ac is simply inferior. AND it takes up more slots? Like LBX, why on earth would we use this?

[Brain Cancer]

You never were supposed to use it alone, it -was- supposed to be combined into the appropriate LB-Xs once they gave you ammo switching.

But they failed in humiliating fashion, leaving it in rather than admitting defeat.

[Mcgral18]

No
Higher velocity


More accurate, as in, easier to use, but less potential than UACs
isACs could also see the same velocity buff


1200M/s cAC sounds at least a choice VS a 650 M/s UAC

[Rusharn]

I think the Clan AC's should be switch to single shot. They were supposed to reflect the LBX's ammo witching option to fire slug or scattershot. If they make them fire single shot then they would at least be LBX's that have all slug ammo.