6 replies to this topic

[MechTech Dragoon]

In battletech (which this games balance is based on as it should be) weapons can destroy mechs in a matter of seconds, HOWEVER, missing is an extremely large part of the game. Most of the time, you are not going to strip someones armor off with a couple gauss shots at 100+ meters, you'll miss 3 out of 4 shots.

Weapon ranges in MWO are based loosely around the extreme range values of weapons in battletech, one hex being about 33 meters. This results in us being able to do large amounts of damage, with pinpoint accuracy at extreme ranges consistently.

An easy fix, that would improve gameplay across the board, would be to implement a "sights shake" based on distance aimed at. Similar to the sights shake in sniper weapons in most FPS.

Sight shake would start at approximately 700-800 meters, causing you to miss some shots, or take more time aiming, better lining things up with battletech values. Sight shake would increase gradually dependent on distance aimed, increasing gradually from 700 meters onward.
Being only slight at 700 meters, and being extremely difficult to line up a shot at 1500+ meters.

Allong with this adjustment, tracking strength of LRMS should be adjusted, max range being 930 meters, having weak tracking strength down to 700 meters, where tracking strength is strong down to 450 meters, where it starts to drop off again.

[FunkyT]

There is somewhat of a problem with the way you suggest sight shake should work.
Making it dependent on the distance your crosshair is currently aiming at would cause huge sight shake most of the time, especially when trying to see something in the distance or when trying to take out UAVs. That could make people feel uneasy after a while.
Something like this works in FPS games, because there you have a dedicated aiming function. But since you're basically always aiming in MWO, this would cause more problems than it would solve, I think.
At least in the way you suggest it here.

Also, what would the logical (lore or something) reason be for having sight shake on big stompy robots? I'm not at all familiar with Battletech lore or the table-tops, but from a logical standpoint I don't really see a way to justify something like this.
To discourage long-distance sniping in this game, there should probably be other ways to do that. Some form of weapon spray, or maybe stronger damage-drops past certain distances traveled, I don't know.

[TychoBravo]

I would be all for this if Targeting Computers would reduce the amount of weapon shake. I think this would be a good way to change targeting computers in general though. In the tabletop the targeting computers actually did something very similar to this - they didn't weigh multiple tons because of inferior 80s style room size computers, they weighed multiple tons and took up phone-booth sized volumes because they included precision aiming machinery and additional gyros to stabilize the weapon mounts.

Also, it would be good to make projectiles and indirect fire weapons have a natural degree of 'spread' over multiple shots just like SRMs and LBXs currently have for single salvos/pellet clusters.

Edited by TychoBravo, 21 March 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[MechTech Dragoon]

@TheBoombox
Now generally it wouldnt be too extreme, however, in battletech aiming at something from extreme ranges causes high amounts of miss chance. Even with lrms, missile spread is massive at long ranges. If you need some point of reference check out the new battletech games gameplay, its very in-line with traditional battletech. Sight shake would facilitate this greatly, only slight site shake though, dependant on A. range of what your aiming at, and B. ground orientation (its easier to aim when at higher ground). Also, piloting a battlemech would kind of be like piloting a cross between a tank and a fighter jet.

Also, site shake would occur with A. moving, and B. weapons fire. Believe it or not, an AC-20 causes recoil. Also...for all intensive purposes, this IS an FPS.

@Tycho Bravo
Yes you are very correct, this would coincide well with targeting computers, and would very much be their purpose. They are for increasing accuracy, not straight up range and projectile speeds.
LRMS are supposed to have a very wide spread realistically, and auto cannons generally don't fire one shot. The autocannons on most mechs actually function like burst fire machine guns, firing a number of rounds per "burst" dependent on caliber.

Selectable caliber for autocannons would be a great balance point for this as well. Higher caliber, more per hit, more punishment for miss, lower caliber, less chance to miss, but less damage to one direct area on hit.

[Reno Blade]

The shake we have on Jump jets would work, but it would be a drastic performance hit, if every movement and other effects (e.g. heat/volley size or recoil) would cause the shake, because the server needs to know every movement of the crosshair.

Currently i can see some people (me included) having much harder time aiming if the target is not right in front of you and walking towards you (e.g. side movements and twisting).
As the torso/arm movements are slower, even with skills, you will have harder time to aim.

So my suggestion for an "easy" tweak would be to further slow down some agility values, AND reduce agility per heat level (50%-70%-90%) which reduces the boating/alphastrike efficiencies much more.

[MechTech Dragoon]

Yes something like that, however it is massively drastic in terms of what were looking at. More so a slight "jerk" on every step/shot with large caliber weapons. (i.e ppcs, ac-10, ac-20+lb/uac). However, that would be a bit more of a stretch goal, and not so much necessary.
What were more so looking at is reticule shake dependent on range, increasing at longer ranges. Looking at b-tech, despite the fact a ppc has a max range of well say 900m or so, at said max range, most mechwarriors will not hit that shot, they would have something of a 20% chance to hit, maybe. However, in MWO you have people with advanced zoom windows, still making shots with weapons firing farther than what their max ranges should be, with pinpoint accuracy. (Only weapons with longer range than LRMS are supposed to be ac-2 and lbx-2 i do believe, outside of artillery). The new skill tree has made adjustments to this, and the game does feel a little smoother and more in line, more work to go however.

Personally i think agility is in a good place, a machine moving at 94kph shouldnt be easy to hit with an artillery sized cannon , and battlemechs are actually relatively agile, its part of what gives them a combat advantage over vehicles. (tanks in btech mass up to like 200 tons lol, many actually outgunning battlemechs, but still losing a head to head fight) If were talking in lore terms, a battlemech computer will actually tell the mech to lean into or away from shots relatively accurately to lessen incoming impacts, akin to the way we would lean into or away from punches.
Battlemechs really arent supposed to be rigid machines, many capable of precise hand to hand combat, even the atlas can have a boxing match with another mech, albeit picking up and throwing smaller ones.

Edited by XkrX Dragoon, 22 May 2017 - 04:35 AM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

I like this idea... ALOT.
Nice call.

The biggest problem i have with this MW game is the sheer amount of firepower on the battlefield that is pin point accurate. Or even not pin point but just clustered enough for the vats majority of dmg to hit the area aimed at (usualy Center Torso)

Its not so much a problem for agile mechs, predominantly lights, since agility is a much better counter to a Persons aim, than simple sitting there with more armor. Why? becouse 10 people can aim at a fast mech , they all have a hard time hitting it, 10 people aim at a slow high armor mech, they are all gunna hit it and no amount of armor is going to stop 10 alpha strikes from destroying you.
Now in game ur unlikely to have all of 10 people alpha u at once, but even just 3 or 4 can down you depending on each players alpha damage, and this happens al lto often to heavy and assault piltos that it makes said weight class mechs last less time on the battlefield than lights, dispite them being front line fighters.

If PGI wont limit the size and regularity a Alpha strike can shoot, then a means to nerf aiming and pinpoint damage does indeed need implimenting.

is it an aritifical addition to gameplay, yes, but as people have poitned out, its nothign new to the FPS genre.

It might be an idea to limit this reticule shake to only when one zooms in, be it regular zoom or advanced. At the very least make what ever shake is present when aiming at say 700m much less observable on normal view, becoming more obvious the higher one zooms in, as would be natural.



Also , i like the idea of having a sweet spot for LRM tracking, it would encourage 'proper' use of LRM's and discourage the boating of LRM's for the purpose of max range cowardess. Since trying to boat LRM's with such a sweet spot would mean the proper use for them would be within the range & sight of enemy mechs, who could then get inside the sweet spot range, at which point a LRM boat is screwed.
Instead people would have to also carry short range weapons for such situations, thus lowering the total number of LRM's boated.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 22 May 2017 - 05:43 AM.