Jump to content

Clan Components Nerf.


37 replies to this topic

#21 Abisha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:35 PM

View PostMoonlight Grimoire, on 20 March 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:


They will likely take the same slots and have the same tonnage as on tabletop, with the +5/+6 tons that PGI does to all engines for rolling in cockpit and gyro weights into engines. So really we know exactly how much they weigh, how much slots (and where said slots go) they will take up, and we know they will not die on losing a side torso as PGI is still running off of 3 engine crits = dead mech (hence why an IS XL with 3 engine crits in each side torso dies when it loses a side torso). The main difference at this point is if PGI rounds up or down to the nearest .5 tons, likely up instead of down. In which case people have already done the math for how much each engine will weigh.


Ghost heat do not exist in table top yet it exist in MWO. like i say basic knows nothing other what's stated that it takes 2 critical slots right and left side torso and that it weights more then XL but lighter then Standard engine. so basic knows nothing.

[color=#FFFFFF]An Inner Sphere engine that can survive the loss of a side torso as it only occupies 2 critical slots in each side. Lighter than a standard engine, but heavier than an XL.[/color]

#22 Coolant

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,079 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

It's a needed nerf to balance IS vs Clan

#23 Moonlight Grimoire

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Moon
  • The Moon
  • 941 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:40 PM

It is 75% the weight of a IS Standard engine, PGI also likes to copy tonnage and slots from tabletop, they tinker with heat and damage. So, it is fair to say LFE's will be 75% the weight of a STD of the same rating, same slots used up, not die from losing a side torso. It is meant to be the middle ground between an IS XL and IS STD trying to copy the survivability of clan XL's while losing all 50% of the weight saving cXL's give.

In short, we really do know how they will be implemented and work. To go away from what TT very clearly lays out for something that isn't heat or damage would be a massive departure from practice by PGI and also a massive undertaking in trying to balance something new from scratch.

#24 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 3,460 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:40 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 20 March 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:


You're implying I'm a clanner there mate.

I'm a merc...


A clan merc.

I hate to tar you all with the same brush (actually I love it), but almost all the mercs whining "I'm a merc (insert neutrality reason here) and clanners are going to suck after this" are contracted with the clans. Coincidence, I think not. Now you may be neutral but a lot of your like minded clan "mercs" are clearly not and so I tar you with the same brush even if that tar only sticks like you're Jack Slater.

#25 Abisha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:52 PM

View PostMoonlight Grimoire, on 20 March 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

It is 75% the weight of a IS Standard engine, PGI also likes to copy tonnage and slots from tabletop, they tinker with heat and damage. So, it is fair to say LFE's will be 75% the weight of a STD of the same rating, same slots used up, not die from losing a side torso. It is meant to be the middle ground between an IS XL and IS STD trying to copy the survivability of clan XL's while losing all 50% of the weight saving cXL's give.

In short, we really do know how they will be implemented and work. To go away from what TT very clearly lays out for something that isn't heat or damage would be a massive departure from practice by PGI and also a massive undertaking in trying to balance something new from scratch.


with other words my King crab that use a Standard 300 Weight 25 ton, will get a free 6,25 Ton weapon space.
without extra risk and or payoff sounds not right even for IS. and i do not believe in free lunch ether should you.

#26 Revis Volek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,247 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationBack in the Pilots chair

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

View PostAbisha, on 20 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:


with other words my King crab that use a Standard 300 Weight 25 ton, will get a free 6,25 Ton weapon space.
without extra risk and or payoff sounds not right even for IS. and i do not believe in free lunch ether should you.



Sounds about spot on...


And should really help with balance considerably. As an IS pilot your lunch hasnt been free in over 4 years in fact i think some clanner just stolez it.

Edited by Revis Volek, 20 March 2017 - 01:58 PM.


#27 Moonlight Grimoire

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Moon
  • The Moon
  • 941 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:13 PM

View PostAbisha, on 20 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:


with other words my King crab that use a Standard 300 Weight 25 ton, will get a free 6,25 Ton weapon space.
without extra risk and or payoff sounds not right even for IS. and i do not believe in free lunch ether should you.


Still loses it's side torsos quickly, doesn't go as fast as an XL, can't stuff as much in the side torsos, still dies when it loses both side torsos. King Crab gets a buff via LFE's putting it closer to parody with clan mechs which is the goal of LFE's. The downside is what I said on reddit, steeper penalty for losing a side torso than clan XL's give. Or the same penalty. To me it is the most logical and specifically easiest way to balance LFE's is losing a side torso hurts just like it does for a clan XL. That is what I am expecting. Sure you live, you keep half your fire power in most cases, but you run hotter and move slower with weapons that do less damage per ton than clan mechs. It ain't going to be a free lunch, it is going to be a less filling lunch than what clan's get, but, more so than XL's and STD's on most mechs.

#28 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 17,987 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:23 PM

View PostAbisha, on 20 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:


with other words my King crab that use a Standard 300 Weight 25 ton, will get a free 6,25 Ton weapon space.
without extra risk and or payoff sounds not right even for IS. and i do not believe in free lunch ether should you.


Not quite

Posted Image

5 tons even


It's still outright worse than the cXL, so don't go whining about "IS OP"

#29 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 4,806 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:00 PM

View PostLykaon, on 20 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:




You really think that the new tech like the LFE is going to place the I.S. "far in the lead" for durability?

the LFE is half the weight savings of the Clan XL. So what will a previously XL equiped mech give up to fit the heavier LFE?

Speed? because a smaller engine needed to be used. The now slower mech is more easily out manuvered.

Maybe give up armor? well that's directly impacting durability negativley.

Fewer weapons? well now you will be severely out gunned and not likely to make efficent trades in exchanges of fire.

Lighter weapons? usually means less range and that means fewer opertunities to engage or overall less damage but mostly it's BOTH.

So a Griffin 2N with a LFE will either drop to a smaller rated LFE or reduce weapon payload and the ECM making it an oversized slow light mech in terms of firepower.

As for the new I.S. tech the majority of it will be simply heavier bulkier versions of clan tech. Combine the this with I.S. endo steel and the I.S. mechs are starved for both tonage and space. It will be give and take unlike clan tech that frequently allows you to fill a mech to weapon capacity and still have unused tonnage.

I wouldn't worry about the I.S. UACs it is highly unlikely that an Inner Sphere UAC20 with fire two 20 point slugs. It is more likely that I.S. UACs will use 5 point submunitions so a UAC20 will probably fire 4 slugs per 20 damage.

As for the clans having better pilots as reflected by Tiers...well this is a direct result of clan equipment granting better performance. I always go noticably better when using clan mechs.

The clan tech advantages provide to boost in performance it's not neccissarily just the innate tallent of the pilots.


In my griffin comparison the common build for scouting is STD275, 4 ASRM6, ECM, ammo. This is the most effective build for countering clans due to the complete lack of XL check and the effective frontloaded alpha that is condensed enough to rip legs off mechs without spread. An LFE in this mech would be a straight upgrade with no downsides, so the griffin could bring better weapons, more cooling, a faster engine, jump jets, armor on the empty arms, or whatever. So basically the exact opposite of what you were suggesting.

The things that are just heavier but superior versions of clan tech aren't really the most interesting except for the UACs, but the actual new tech such as MRMs and RACs are quite interesting.

The UAC20 is likely to have less shells than a clan UAC20 if we just go based off the UAC5 vs CUAC5, the UAC5 is one shell while the CUAC5 is 2 shells, this could either mean the UAC20 will have half as many shells per burst as the CUAC20 or one less, so either 2 or 3 shells, either way it would be quite powerful, especially when paired up with any quirks the IS mech has. With a single shell it would be obviously overpowered.

The high tiered players who are on the clan side don't only play clan, they are merc units that are causing the massive shifts in player populations between the factions. This means that they use both types of mech, which usually means they are better pilots because they've gotten familiar with both faction's chassis and know all their strengths and weaknesses and how to make the best out of each, this allows them to do better against any opponents they come up against. In general the loyalists don't hold a candle to the merc units. So its entirely untrue that they are high tier because they only play clans, because they don't.


View PostVonBruinwald, on 20 March 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:


A clan merc.

I hate to tar you all with the same brush (actually I love it), but almost all the mercs whining "I'm a merc (insert neutrality reason here) and clanners are going to suck after this" are contracted with the clans. Coincidence, I think not. Now you may be neutral but a lot of your like minded clan "mercs" are clearly not and so I tar you with the same brush even if that tar only sticks like you're Jack Slater.


Either way, I'll be contracted with the IS in July when the new tech drops, much more fun to be had with all those extra new toys.

Of course if you look in this thread though, you'll see other mercs aligned with the same clan as I am arguing points against my own. I'm really doubting there is some hidden clan merc conspiracy, if there is I haven't been invited.

Edited by Dakota1000, 20 March 2017 - 04:03 PM.


#30 Pixel Hunter

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 402 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:43 PM

View PostRevis Volek, on 20 March 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:



Sounds about spot on...


And should really help with balance considerably. As an IS pilot your lunch hasnt been free in over 4 years in fact i think some clanner just stolez it.

my normal crab will like this. besides, the fact that Clan XL's aren't an insta kill from torsos was misguided anyways

#31 Revis Volek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,247 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationBack in the Pilots chair

Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:40 PM

View PostGimpy117, on 20 March 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

my normal crab will like this. besides, the fact that Clan XL's aren't an insta kill from torsos was misguided anyways



I think do too! Its gonna be the most helpful IMO for Gun boat lights and Fast mediums that needed the speed but still able to survive the brawl.

and yes, its one of the more glaring and largest imbalances we have in the game to date.

Edited by Revis Volek, 20 March 2017 - 06:41 PM.


#32 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:54 PM

Clan Components nerf is as overrated as the Clan XL engine additional nerf from a previous patch (seriously, it's just engine DHS, not OVERALL DHS that gets affected - people honestly don't read the fine print in the patch notes or are trying to overstate stuff because apparently Clans aren't used enough in comp play or something).

Our balance overlord is trying to make MGs great again, except not.

#33 Monkey Lover

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 7,918 posts
  • LocationWazan

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:09 PM

I wonder how many of you even looked at the examples. The timber v black knight the timber took a whole 3% extra nerf.

Both sides are getting nerfed. Clans will still crit out IS more often because it has more weapons on average with higher damage. Don't forget you only need to brush a mech even at max range to crit it out.


I feel sorry for lights and mediums on both sides.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 20 March 2017 - 08:10 PM.


#34 Revis Volek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,247 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationBack in the Pilots chair

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:28 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 20 March 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

Clan Components nerf is as overrated as the Clan XL engine additional nerf from a previous patch (seriously, it's just engine DHS, not OVERALL DHS that gets affected - people honestly don't read the fine print in the patch notes or are trying to overstate stuff because apparently Clans aren't used enough in comp play or something).

Our balance overlord is trying to make MGs great again, except not.



lolz

He may want to make them better but what he is trying is really anyone guess.

#35 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:31 PM

View PostAbisha, on 20 March 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

the update tomorrow leaves me bit in a worry.
the components nerf looks like a massive nerf to clans.
sure some clan mechs are really over the top "timber" for instance tanks like assault mech.

but their are clan mechs really weak example Ebony feels like a paper mech
same go's for the super nova it might look really tanky but it's not the internal components already fall off easy when being fired on that will be even worse tomorrow.
they should nerf clan mechs individual not general.


Have you ever made a post where you weren't whining and crying about nothing?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 March 2017 - 08:49 PM.


#36 Chip Danger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 536 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:33 PM

View PostProsperity Park, on 20 March 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Then IS should bring 60 tonners. There is a weight gap between factions for a reason. When the new tech drops, that would be a good time to consider treating them as equals.


Crow is on the same terms as the SRM BSW. When the BSW goes live for C-BIlls it will be a good time to add the Crow back in.

#37 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:40 PM

View PostRevis Volek, on 20 March 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

lolz

He may want to make them better but what he is trying is really anyone guess.


He's playing with Monopoly Money, and rolling 2 doubles already... and thinking what wonders he can do on the 3rd double...

#38 Kangarad

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 2
  • FP Veteran - Beta 2
  • 573 posts
  • LocationIn the Mechlab, adding more Double Heatsinks.

Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:27 PM

anyone else here thinking that this nerf might not be what the crit system needs?

reducing booth inersphere and clan internal components without actualy adressing the crit ratio and crit effective ness and inner component vs component health..

clan will still have more component health than IS

components will still have way more health than the component theyr mounted in has structure to crit out aka structure will be gone before you lose even half of your components unles its something like a gauss/ac20.

ac10/ac20/ cuac 10+ gauss/ppc's and other high damage weapons will still be way better at critting out single components(or multiple) than LBX/mg's or other high firerate crit weapons due to crit spreading.

tbh, this changes nothing.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users