55 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Luminis, on 12 June 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

Going by the info I found on Sarna, only the later iATM used Streak-like guidance. And the way I understand it, it's the iATM that has indirect firing capabilities while the regular ATM does not. Seems to me like the regular ATMs are simply dumb fire weapons, much like regular SRMs. I am a little puzzled how y'all established that ATMs are lock-on, guided missiles.

Was there a dev post on that or am I missing something else?

....

They are not dumb fire weapons, if they were dumb fire weapons then they would get a +1 to hit in TT, like IS MRM/s do. As it stands ATM have built in Artemis IV FCS, that alone means that they are not dumb fire.... also highlights an area where PGI messed up with SRM/s, they should not dumb fire either, only MRM/s and RL/s are dumb fire....

SSRM/s have tracking coupled with a FCS system that will not let them fire with out a full lock.

[LordNothing]

mechanically its just going to be a 2 damage missile with an optimal range very close to or at 0, max range will be something like 1200. but remember that it will be at about 50% damage (1) at 600. making it less effective than lerms at this range. maybe it can do a hard cuttoff at 900 but that would require code. of course pgi has done non linear range vs damage mechanics before which arent represented by the ingame graphs, like clan lrm minimal range falloff. some housekeeping they should really look into doing.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 June 2017 - 01:40 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

LordNothing, on 12 June 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

mechanically its just going to be a 2 damage missile with an optimal range very close to or at 0, max range will be something like 1200. but remember that it will be at about 50% damage (1) at 600. making it less effective than lerms at this range. maybe it can do a hard cuttoff at 900 but that would require code. of course pgi has done non linear range vs damage mechanics before which arent represented by the ingame graphs, like clan lrm minimal range falloff. some housekeeping they should really look into doing.

i dont think so i see them using the 30m perHex they have used for all other weapons
(LRMs being the exception, as in TT they have a range of i think 630m, here its 900m(42.8m perHex)

im thinking they will have them do,

Andi Nagasia, on 14 March 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

ATMs
ATM3/ATM6/ATM9/ATM12
Advance Tactical Missile System fires Guided Missile at Medium Ranges,
the launchers are heavy but they can fire missiles that Behave 3 different ways,
-
Weapon,..Damage,..Heat,.....Velocity,.....Cool-down,...Range(3/2/1),..Max Range,.Tons,.Crit*,
ATM3,........9-6-3.........2....100-200-300......3.50..........270-450-810.........810.........1.5......2...
ATM6,......18-12-6.......4....100-200-300......4.00..........270-450-810.........810.........3.5......3...
ATM9,......27-18-9.......6....100-200-300......4.50..........270-450-810.........810...........5.......4...
ATM12,...36-24-12......8....100-200-300......5.00..........270-450-810.........810...........7.......5...
i think ATMs could be Scripted to work in a step like system so their are Viable at all ranges,
(0-270 = 100V & 3Dam)(271-450 = 200V & 2Dam)(451-810 = 300V & 1Dam)

Spoiler

it can be Coded as a step over time,
(this could be used to Balance Velocity, Damage & Range)
Missile Fires, Initial Stats (Velocity = 100m/sec)(Damage = 3)
firstWait(2.7(270m) [Velocity(100) = Velocity + 100] [Damage(3) = Damage - 1] (at 270m-on V=200 & Dam=2)
secondWait(3.6(2.7+0.9) [Velocity(200) = Velocity + 100] [Damage(2) = Damage - 1] (at 450m-on V=300 & Dam=1)
(0-270 = 100V & 3Dam)(271-450 = 200V & 2Dam)(451-810 = 300V & 1Dam)

[LordNothing]

stepped range kind of makes sense but thats a new mechanic to implement. i just think they will use the existing mechanics to implement most of these weapons. using the minimum, maximum and optimum ranges to set the operational envelope close to the table top equivalent ranges.

[LORD ORION]

You are all living in some alternate reality

How much you wanna bet they will work like SRMs with special range and only have a standard ammo version?

[KursedVixen]

Atms will definitely fill a niche roll unlike LRMs and SRMs they come in multiples of 3's 3, 6, 9,12 so they will likely have a lower damage maximum than LRMs and higher damage maximum than SRMs at short range ATMs have longer range than LRM's and still do 1 point of damage at long range, For MWO the damage should start at 3 then drop to 1 as it nears max range. the downside is it's heavier and has less damage maximum at longer ranges it will likely have less ammo per ton than either launcher since after all you really only need about 12 missiles max for one shot of the 12 launcher so that will have to factor into the ammo. for long range Atm's will need lock on ability, in battltech it's said atm's cannot be fired indirectly.

[Navid A1]

RIP clan LRMs

[Brain Cancer]

Hilariously, the ATM now has a deadzone just like IS LRMs.

This is really funny because the weapon is actually only superior to lurms from 181-270m, after which damage reduction makes it less effective, and inside 180m they deal absolutely no damage whatsoever.

[Metus regem]

Brain Cancer, on 28 June 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hilariously, the ATM now has a deadzone just like IS LRMs.

This is really funny because the weapon is actually only superior to lurms from 181-270m, after which damage reduction makes it less effective, and inside 180m they deal absolutely no damage whatsoever.

271-450m ATM's are still slightly better at being 2 dmg/missile, after that though... yea....

[Hal Greaves]

Metus regem, on 28 June 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

271-450m ATM's are still slightly better at being 2 dmg/missile, after that though... yea....

The deadzone effectively kills ATMs. After 270 meters the damage/ton falls well short of LRMs by a significant amount, and the investment is not anywhere worth it just for that 90 meter pocket of extra damage you do. The missiles are far too generalist and the dead zone is too massive of a trade off to make these worth taking over the other two dedicated systems in any capacity.

Edited by Hal Greaves, 28 June 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Here is a testing video of my testing them on the testing ground.s

[Davegt27]

wow right to the CT

man does it take a long time to down load the PTS

[Cato Phoenix]

It could have been so cool if it fired direct like a rocket launcher.

ATM 3 fires 3 missiles in 3 rapid shots (1 per salvo)
ATM 6 fires 6 missiles in 3 shots (2 per salvo)
ATM 9 fires 9 missiles in 3 shots (3 per salvo)
ATM 12 fires 12 missiles in 3 shots (4 per salvo)

And this is kind of my off the wall idea - would be interesting to actually -reverse- the ranges. 0-90 1 damage, 90-180 2 damage, 180-270 3 damage. So your damage goes up as the targets get harder to hit and skill increases.

[Pariah Devalis]

Cato Phoenix, on 28 June 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

It could have been so cool if it fired direct like a rocket launcher.

ATM 3 fires 3 missiles in 3 rapid shots (1 per salvo)
ATM 6 fires 6 missiles in 3 shots (2 per salvo)
ATM 9 fires 9 missiles in 3 shots (3 per salvo)
ATM 12 fires 12 missiles in 3 shots (4 per salvo)

And this is kind of my off the wall idea - would be interesting to actually -reverse- the ranges. 0-90 1 damage, 90-180 2 damage, 180-270 3 damage. So your damage goes up as the targets get harder to hit and skill increases.

I'd actually like an inverse mechanic on the sub 180. Though making it a linear scale as the missiles "may have difficulty arming under range." 0-180, a linear increase of damage from 0-3 per missile. After which, it ratchets down by step as range increases. However, I'd also recommend increasing the 2 damage missile range by ~100 meters, and take all of that ballistic trajectory arc out of it. You can actually indirectly fire ATM right now. That just shouldn't be a thing.

I'd also like the ammo per ton to be bumped up to 90. The standard ammo for ATM is the 2 damage version. Instead of normalizing the damage per ton for something with an extremely narrow band of usability, it makes sense to normalize the damage per ton of ammo to the generalist median damage of the system. 90 missiles per ton, at 2 damage per missile, puts it at 180 damage per ton. Still below LRM and SRM, still paying a price in ammo efficiency in shots per ton of ammo over the other systems (requiring more tons of ammo to feed), but not ludicrously anemic.

[Brain Cancer]

What might work, given the weird fusion of ammo types:

Reduce ATM range to the TT 810m. That's quite enough given it has LRM velocity, can get range nodes, and so on.

Change the deadzone to a damage reduction like Clan LRMs from 120m in, then give them 3 damage from 120m-270m.

Damage drops constantly from there: By 540m it's 2 damage per missile, by 810m (max range) it drops to 1.

Increase the velocity. IMO, LRMs should be up to 240 anyway in direct fire mode (200 in IDF) and so should ATMs. MRMs currently fire at double the speed of an ATM launcher! Depending on how badly AMS chews these up, missile health may also need to be rethought, as faster ATM = less damage on the way in from countermeasures.

Also, we now have Yet Another Missile System that's countered by fricking ECM.

Take ATM's Artemis into account. At least all the launchers, unlike LRMs actually normalize their frickin' spread.

[Honeybadgers]

Scale back the damage, increase missile speed, reduce the minimum range to 50m or zero, and make the max effective range 500-600m. Unless you're willing to actually make them loaded with specific types of ammo that change their behavior to be extremely niche (which would actually be the perfect world for easily balancing these monstrosities,) then you'll never truly make them fit lore anyways and they should be balanced for fun and usability over lore-friendliness.

Right now these things are ******* HORRIBLE. I feel so ******* cheated with how incredible MRM's and RL's are, and in their current iteration, I will never load them onto a single mech I own over a streak or LRM. Not only are IS getting balanced versions of ALL the toys that help set clan apart, but they're getting so many new toys to our garbage missile and WAY too hot heavy lasers (micro lasers, light probe, light tag and mg's are niche at best)

I feel like in a midrange game we were already running too hot with mechs that have poor hitboxes to be effective at brawling with the IS mechs on level ground (particularly in scouting with the bushwackers ROLLING us with no stormcrows to help balance it) and the RAC's and MRM's/RL's will absolutely obliterate us in not only the light-medium brawls, but in scouting too.

Edited by Honeybadgers, 06 July 2017 - 04:38 PM.