14 replies to this topic

[G4LV4TR0N]

I've heard many times that AMS is bugged and having 3 of them on one mech does not work properly. Instead 2 was suggested to me. I haven't been able to verify this so I am asking.

[Rogue Jedi]

no, that is most certainly not true, or at least was not 6 months ago.

I have played a 3 AMS Kit Fox with the range and overload modules , that will destroy an LRM20 salvo, however there is a blind spot on some Mechs where AMS is less effective or cannot hit missiles.

AMS is less effective against SSRMs or SRMs than LRMs

[G4LV4TR0N]

Did you test damage for 2 and 3 AMS? Those people who were talking about it were saying that it's related to game engine and it won't ever be fixed.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Without any hard proof I would simply assume 3 is better than 2. Is all mechs that can have 3, Clan mechs anyway? Clan AMS weights half a ton so I don't think there's much point to optimize. If you going to have AMS, better have max.

But, I've also heard ofrten about that the AMS system doesn't cover full 360 angle so that's probably true.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 26 March 2017 - 01:24 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

G4LV4TR0N, on 26 March 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Did you test damage for 2 and 3 AMS? Those people who were talking about it were saying that it's related to game engine and it won't ever be fixed.

I never did scientific testing, but 3 AMS definately seem to take out more missiles than 2, if you have ever been NARCed in a 2AMS Mech vs a 3AMS Kit Fox you definately feel a lot more durable.

If someone who has premium time wants to test this reply here within an hour after I post this and I will be happy to do a series of private matches ^{(KFX 1 AMS, 2 AMS, 3 AMS, 3 AMS+modules vs a Mech with an LRM5, LRM10, LRM15 and LRM20, the ideal would be to have 2 Mechs shooting at me in each round, 1 Clan 1 IS each with the 4 sizes of launcher)} to prove it one way or the other.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Rogue Jedi, on 26 March 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

I never did scientific testing, but 3 AMS definately seem to take out more missiles than 2, if you have ever been NARCed in a 2AMS Mech vs a 3AMS Kit Fox you definately feel a lot more durable.

If someone who has premium time wants to test this reply here within an hour after I post this and I will be happy to do a series of private matches ^{(KFX 1 AMS, 2 AMS, 3 AMS, 3 AMS+modules vs a Mech with an LRM5, LRM10, LRM15 and LRM20, the ideal would be to have 2 Mechs shooting at me in each round, 1 Clan 1 IS each with the 4 sizes of launcher)} to prove it one way or the other.

Try to get 2 different mechs shooting you. The flaw with ams lies in target priority.
Besides, tripple ams absolutely kills it if it protects friendlies when missiles pass over it and ams can work over the full diameter instead of being the target itself (only effective on radius).

On that note, tripple ams works without issues. It's just that tipple doesn't means threefold as effective.
Tripple ams + ams range and overload is also stupid ams ammunition hungry (tho, hilarious to troll enemy lrm boats, especially lrm5 boat)

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 26 March 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 26 March 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

On that note, tripple ams works without issues. It's just that tipple doesn't means threefold as effective.
Tripple ams + ams range and overload is also stupid ams ammunition hungry (tho, hilarious to troll enemy lrm boats, especially lrm5 boat)

agreed, and it seems most of the people who do the 6 LRM5 chainsaw builds do not know what they are doing, if they did they would have a fire group for chainfire and another for alpha, chain fire is the default fire mode, and when they see lots of missiles exploding in the air and nothing getting through a semi competant person would switch to firing alpha strikes, unless there are at least 4 AMS your 30 missile salvo would have at least a few missiles get through.

[Koniving]

G4LV4TR0N, on 26 March 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Did you test damage for 2 and 3 AMS? Those people who were talking about it were saying that it's related to game engine and it won't ever be fixed.

In terms of the engine, it is literally a "timer" that ticks X numbers from Y health of Specific Missile per milisecond.

In 1 second, an AMS does 3.5 damage.

Note: LRMs have 1 HP per missile. SRMs and Streaks have 2 HP per missile. MRMs are likely to have 1 to 1.5 health per missile. ATMs... no clue. And NARCs have 3 health per missile beacon.

2 AMS does 7 damage per second. 3 AMS does 10.5 damage per second.

We know that these do work.
What is uncertain is whether there are specific issues with your given mech.

---------
Currently, though there have been improvements and some fixes to the issues, there are several mechs where the AMS does not work in a given direction. (For some, the direction is whichever way North is. For others it may be behind it. Still more fail to attack missiles to the side opposite of the mount if it is on an arm.)

This is not affected by the number of AMS but the placement and the specific mechs where the AMS "attack bubble" is incomplete due to developer error.

In some cases, it could be a specific AMS on a specific limb which for mechs with 3 AMS each located on different body parts (a Nova comes to mind), it could be that only one of the AMS slots has the issue and thus 2 would be better than 3 in that given circumstance for the specific situation where the faulty slot will fail to react to enemy missiles.

[The Basilisk]

G4LV4TR0N, on 26 March 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

I've heard many times that AMS is bugged and having 3 of them on one mech does not work properly. Instead 2 was suggested to me. I haven't been able to verify this so I am asking.

Thats not entirely correct.
It does work but using more than 2 AMS is highly inefficient in terms of ammunition.
Since your AMS can not target more than one missile at a time you will destroy missiles so fast that lots of your ammo/dmg goes into already dead missiles.
Your AMS system will produce dmg ticks versus missile health and if you use more ams per tick there will be several more and more ticks where you put out more dmg/ammo than the residual HP of a given missile yields.

Edited by The Basilisk, 26 March 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Does it man that AMS Overload module is bad? It makes damage grow from 3.5 to 6/sec. With triple AMS it would mean it's 18dmg/sec. By numbers it should not only make 3xAMS work at almost double rate but also it would allow you to reduce needed ammo to shoot same amount of missiles. But how does it look in practice?

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 26 March 2017 - 04:09 PM.

[Koniving]

G4LV4TR0N, on 26 March 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Does it man that AMS Overload module is bad? It makes damage grow from 3.5 to 6/sec. With triple AMS it would mean it's 18dmg/sec. By numbers it should not only make 3xAMS work at almost double rate but also it would allow you to reduce needed ammo to shoot same amount of missiles. But how does it look in practice?

Insane.

I still can't fathom why PGI removed the increased ammunition consumption. I can see that having the drawback in exchange for a really expensive module probably sucked (and in its upcoming non-module "Skill" form perhaps it will again increase ammo consumption)... But right now it looks absolutely insane. Lots of explosions in the sky and no splash to worry about.

This said the more time you have before impact the better as you will be able to shoot down more.

I suppose this said.. Your ammo consumption will be at the same rate as without. So long as there are missiles in your field, there will be ammo ticking down until they are destroyed. In theory, yes it would reduce the overall ammo consumption by eliminating them quicker. (Overload increases damage now, before it used to increase damage output by increasing the fire rate significantly).

[Tier5ForLife]

Rogue Jedi, on 26 March 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

agreed, and it seems most of the people who do the 6 LRM5 chainsaw builds do not know what they are doing, if they did they would have a fire group for chainfire and another for alpha, chain fire is the default fire mode, and when they see lots of missiles exploding in the air and nothing getting through a semi competant person would switch to firing alpha strikes, unless there are at least 4 AMS your 30 missile salvo would have at least a few missiles get through.

I figured this out some time ago. When firing on one mech that was inside the range of 3-4 AMS's (on maybe 3-4 mechs) The trickle 5's are all shot down.

So as you said, ether have to option of firing a number of LRM 5's (my favorite) at the same time or use bigger launchers.

[Rogue Jedi]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 27 March 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

I figured this out some time ago. When firing on one mech that was inside the range of 3-4 AMS's (on maybe 3-4 mechs) The trickle 5's are all shot down.

So as you said, ether have to option of firing a number of LRM 5's (my favorite) at the same time or use bigger launchers.

1 AMS can shoot down a Clan LRM5 volly, 2 AMS or 1 with the modules will take out an IS LRM5 volly, why I mentioned 4+ is 4 AMS with the modules could in theory elimanate a cLRM30 volly

[G4LV4TR0N]

I have also heard another rumour, that multiple AMS will target same missle and hence total damage will be reduced. Anyone cares to debunk?

[Rogue Jedi]

G4LV4TR0N, on 27 March 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

I have also heard another rumour, that multiple AMS will target same missle and hence total damage will be reduced. Anyone cares to debunk?

as Koniving alreasy explained the AMS act as a timer removing health from each missile, I believe they do all target the same missile (the nearest missile, prioritising those locked onto you), and when that missile is destroyed target the next until it runs out of ammo or there are no more enemy missiles in range, I do not know how fast it retargets.

to test this would require a private match, again the only way to test this is to have a Mech with 1 AMS and see how big a volly it takes to get through, then test again with 2 AMS, and again with 3 AMS, then finaly with 3 AMS + all the modules.

at time of posting it is 7:50pm uk time, I will be available for testing from about 10pm to 11pm, Galvertron if you want to test, and you have premium time please let me know by 10:30pm uk time

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 27 March 2017 - 10:51 AM.