46 replies to this topic

[Kasumi Sumika]

[Hit the Deck]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 April 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

....
WS as throttle forward and backward, A and S as left and right, though probably locked to a throttle decay style function. No torso twist, but mouse movement yaws the entire mech.

Why not:

• W/S: forward/backward
  
• A/D: left/right turn
  
• Q/W: left/right step
  
• Mouse movement: torso or gun turret

?

[Pariah Devalis]

Hit the Deck, on 02 April 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Why not:

• W/S: forward/backward
  
• A/D: left/right turn
  
• Q/W: left/right step
  
• Mouse movement: torso or gun turret

?

Because quads didn't have torso twist at the direct trade of being able to sidestep. Meanwhile, quad-turrets are developed sometime later than 3067. Even when they were made, they were rarely used and prone to malfunctions, so largely stayed experimental.

You are also creating a need for new keybinds. It is better to keep it simple, so one does not need to totally reinvent the wheel just to introduce quads.

Edit: I should have wrote A and D as sidestep, not A and S as S is reverse throttle.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 April 2017 - 09:33 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 April 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Because quads didn't have torso twist at the direct trade of being able to sidestep. Meanwhile, quad-turrets are developed sometime later than 3067. Even when they were made, they were rarely used and prone to malfunctions, so largely stayed experimental.
....

Ah, but I thought that quads should have some advantages compared to bipeds like having a more stable platform, the ability to side step, and 2 more legs to offset the reduced available crit slots and perhaps the increased difficulty of aiming when they are in a slope because of their horizontal arrangement.

[Pariah Devalis]

Hit the Deck, on 02 April 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

Ah, but I thought that quads should have some advantages compared to bipeds like having a more stable platform, the ability to side step, and 2 more legs to offset the reduced available crit slots and perhaps the increased difficulty of aiming when they are in a slope because of their horizontal arrangement.

They have several advantages over bipeds. Especially in this game.

• Limbs take up a tremendous amount of volume, and four legs take up more, meaning ton for ton, a quad would be overall smaller than a biped.
  
• The ability to sidestep, whereas a biped cannot. It works in HAWKEN, and it is a much faster paced game, so I have few concerns about how they'd handle against a torso twist based enemy.
  
• High mounts are practically guaranteed, due to limited physical locations to mount said weapons.
  
• Four legs that are physically in the way of clear shots to the torso, and the ability to lose one without totally crippling the mech, or lose two and still be functional, if suffering serious performance issues.

So small, high mounts, and with natural shields to protect the torsos. Many actually have fairly respectable engine ratings to begin with, which would lead to nice engine caps for them. For example, the Stalking Spider comes with a 250, so a maximum cap of a 325 rated engine on a 50 ton mech. Fire Scorpion has a 260, so a 315 (rounding up, as apparently is the pattern). Tarantula starts with a 200, so a 280 fits in it. A Barghest starts with a 350, so a 400 is a lock for that one. The expense is that they would be better for the few but big gun loadout mantra, as opposed to a many but small approach.

Considering how effective 2 PPC and a Gauss is, it doesn't take much space to fit that. On natural high mounts. On a comparatively small target. It's a trifecta, right there. Even as a brawler, slap an AC20 and a few SRMs and you have yourself a scary robolobster. I honestly do not see the concept of quad being too severely impacted by the limited crit slots. At least on Clan quads, due to lower crit requirements. They just won't boat energy well, due to lack of crits for DHS.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 April 2017 - 05:33 PM.

[Lykaon]

Anjian, on 27 March 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

That's assuming the quad mech isn't built like an animal with the legs attached directly to the body on all four corners like an AT-AT.



You want the legs connected to a lower torso that acts like a pivot base, with the main torso above it swiveling.

This sort of design will be a near necessity in order for quads to not be a severe disadvantage.

If the basic design of all quads was a hip section with the legs attached and a torso (turret) section with the weapons and cockpit.

The tabletop rules grant quad mechs 2 primary advantages in movement that other mechs do not have.

Hull down : this is literally squatting on al four legs to lower your mech's elevation.

Lateral shifts: quad mechs have limited diaginal movement.While a conventional mech would need to turn to face the direction of movement to make a turn and then turn back to the original facing after entering the new hex (using 3 MP) a quad could just sift diaginally into the next hex while retaining thier previous facing (using only 2 MP)

So Hull down can be the introduction of a crouching mechanic (limited to quads in MWo perhaps) Fairly easy to impliment.

Lateral Shifts can be a combination of superior turn radious and 360 degree torso rotation (or radical range of torso twist) .

In addition to this I would have quads suffer a reduced penalty for leg destruction. A minor penalty for the first leg with each subsequent leg destroyed stacking up penalties until the quad is equally hampered as a biped mech when it has lost three legs.

We already have mechs that lack arm weapons in game so the loss of arm mounts is really not a huge game changer.

[Naduk]

I would make it like this

Take the forwards / backwards acceleration method
Apply that to sideways motion and replace turn left/right (for only quad mechs)
share top speed between both axis (diagonal movement would be slower Max speed than solo direction )
Give them 360 torso twist
"Borrow" the ik code that starcraft 2 uses for the colossus legs
Watch everyone lose their minds