81 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Tru3insanity, on 29 March 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Im unfamiliar with the lore for melee in battle tech but many other sci-fi series use something called a fission blade. It vibrates at extremely high frequency and heats up to extremely hot temperatures and the blade itself is usually reinforced by molecular binding force generators. Remember we arent talking about medieval combat they likely have sufficiently advanced tech to make this feasible. Lets be honest here too mechs all on their own arent exactly the most realistic from a physics standpoint so give a little leeway and use your imagination. The idea of bringing a blade edge down to an atoms thickness has been played with as well. Area is a key part of that equation so having such a tiny area of impact means it can shear through things like a proverbial knife through butter (hah.)

yeah sorry not internal force field generators to strengthen blades here.

Battletech has similar weapons, after they jumped the anime shark in the 90s. But all were even dumber than the concept of walking tanks in the first place, and tbh, not even terribly interesting once one outgrows their Power Rangers fetish.

[B0oN]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

Yes, now look up how a vibro blade works.

A motor of some sort vibrates the blade so fast it heats up. Sound like it's going to be durable or even terribly effective against heavy armor?

Plasmacutting came to my mind while thinking about the "possible working" of a vibroblade while writing the quoted message .

Also : Metal is never mathematically perfect homogenous, so it will have weakspots that might be found ... or not .

Furthermore : If something as brittle as ceramics can be used to cut/mill/turn/grind even some of the strongest metal alloys then there is a good chance those BT nerds gonna have some chain of thought hammered to fill in the technological blank spots for Vibroblades (see zero-gravity production method needed for FerroFiber).

Lastly : Concentrated and directed vibrational sources can disrupt the molecular bonds of any material in such a way that it just disintegrates or loses all coherence .
See: US Army/Army of the former Sovietunion playing around with sonic disruptors and stuff ... as a pointer towards the massive damage soundwaves alone can inflict, ask some of the whales that have recently stranded due to reason unknown (oh wait, we cant, cause animals are stupid, have no language and dont feel...wait what? /sarcasm off), for which I guess some naval testing of ELF radios could be assigned blame to ( ELF= extreme low frequency . Basically the sound emitted will hug the curvature of the earth and travel way further than anything else under water . And to generate sounds so low and so powerful you need GIGATONS of output power ... which will turn sensitive innards to mush and kill stuff that is just in the way by bad luck or attraction to it) but that is only guesswork from my part, since I haven´t really heard of any sickness that mostly afflicts whales, dolphins and other kind of water creatures that rely on some internal way of pathfinding .

Sorry for the digression, 18 years as machine tooling engineer and an all-encompassing interest into everything made me do this to y´alls

Edited by The Shortbus, 29 March 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[dario03]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

yeah sorry not internal force field generators to strengthen blades here.

Battletech has similar weapons, after they jumped the anime shark in the 90s. But all were even dumber than the concept of walking tanks in the first place, and tbh, not even terribly interesting once one outgrows their Power Rangers fetish.

Two things I can't stand in this galaxy.
Nerds that are intolerent of other nerd's cultures.
And Dutch nerds.

[El Bandito]

Tarogato, on 29 March 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I'm fairly certain there are zero of these, or at least nearly zero.

Here is one. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Onager

[Tarogato]

El Bandito, on 29 March 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

Here is one. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Onager

Post Jihad is a little bit late for MWO though, wouldn't you think? =P

[Bishop Steiner]

The Shortbus, on 29 March 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

Plasmacutting came to my mind while thinking about the "possible working" of a vibroblade while writing the quoted message .

now how does one set that into a durable melee weapon that can survive multiple hits on heavy armor... also how effective would it be in the most ideal conditions?

[Bishop Steiner]

dario03, on 29 March 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

Two things I can't stand in this galaxy.
Nerds that are intolerent of other nerd's cultures.
And Dutch nerds.

And I can't stand power rangers in battletech. Go figger.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tarogato, on 29 March 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I'm fairly certain there are zero of these, or at least nearly zero.

Pariah/Septicemia

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 09:09 AM.

[Tarogato]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Pariah/Septicemia

Alright, I'll give you that one.

Septicemia (3072)
Shadow Cat II (3076)
Onager (3083)
Tomahawk II (3088)

I believe those four are the only mechs that have HAG on their prime/base variants.

[Felicitatem Parco]

HAG/20... 6 slots, 10 tons, fires a burst of slugs at Gauss velocity and Gauss range.

Who would ever take a UAC/20 if they had HAGs? In this game they made the CUACs into burstfire weapons already and the Jam rate and penalties renders doubletapping to be pure folly, so the HAG/20 would just outright replace it.

[SMDMadCow]

Prosperity Park, on 29 March 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

HAG/20... 6 slots, 10 tons, fires a burst of slugs at Gauss velocity and Gauss range.

Who would ever take a UAC/20 if they had HAGs? In this game they made the CUACs into burstfire weapons already and the Jam rate and penalties renders doubletapping to be pure folly, so the HAG/20 would just outright replace it.

HAGs are shotgun type weapons, I imagine it would get the same amount of whining as LBX.

[Felicitatem Parco]

SMDMadCow, on 29 March 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

HAGs are shotgun type weapons, I imagine it would get the same amount of whining as LBX.

HAGs fire a stream of bullets, akin to a rotary autocannon.

[SMDMadCow]

Prosperity Park, on 29 March 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

HAGs fire a stream of bullets, akin to a rotary autocannon.

Right, had it swapped with the Silver Bullet GR.

[Snowbluff]

Prosperity Park, on 29 March 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

HAG/20... 6 slots, 10 tons, fires a burst of slugs at Gauss velocity and Gauss range.

Who would ever take a UAC/20 if they had HAGs? In this game they made the CUACs into burstfire weapons already and the Jam rate and penalties renders doubletapping to be pure folly, so the HAG/20 would just outright replace it.

Long recharge, explodiness, and maybe longer duration?

UAC20 is a bit of a **** weapon anyway.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Snowbluff, on 29 March 2017 - 11:37 AM, said:

UAC20 is a bit of a **** weapon anyway.

This, it isn't the HAG20's fault the UAC20 is horrible. The LBX20 is better than the UAC20, should we nerf it too?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 11:46 AM.

[Sanlucif3r]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

which is always a good idea for durability and defeating heavy armor. oh wait....it's not?
yes and is also a hell of a lot more fragile, because of it, and actually were bad at defeating armor.

which is why axes, maces and picks were the weapons of choice (well, technically a pole axe, but I'm sticking to basic CQB melee here) for defeating such armor.

Go whack on a suit of gothic plate with a standard broadsword, or better yet, a Katana. You'll dent it up OK, and wear the hell out of your blade, and not uncommonly, break it.

Now go after the same suit of armor with a mace, or a battle axe. There is a reason many of the swords of the era were actually piercing weapons.

the quarterstaff is perfectly good for defeating armor moving the brain around the head even with a helmet on.

[Metus regem]

Sanlucif3r, on 29 March 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

the quarterstaff is perfectly good for defeating armor moving the brain around the head even with a helmet on.

So is a shield....

[Bishop Steiner]

Sanlucif3r, on 29 March 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

the quarterstaff is perfectly good for defeating armor moving the brain around the head even with a helmet on.

it's decent though there are much better weapons that distribute force over a much smaller footprint.

But then again, a staff is still a type of club, and as such better against heavy armor than a sword, if used well.

[Snowbluff]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

This, it isn't the HAG20's fault the UAC20 is horrible. The LBX20 is better than the UAC20, should we nerf it too?

:3

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

it's decent though there are much better weapons that distribute force over a much smaller footprint.

But then again, a staff is still a type of club, and as such better against heavy armor than a sword, if used well.

Oakeshott type XV says hello? Use it well like this? Or like this?

Though a good spear would probably be a better comparison.

Edited by Snowbluff, 29 March 2017 - 01:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 29 March 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

:3

Oakeshott type XV says hello? Use it well like this? Or like this?

Though a good spear would probably be a better comparison.

1) Show me a single depiction of a mech sword like that, being used as a thrusting weapon
2) Mech lance does it better
3) Fragile and prone to shattering and still only mediocre against armor. The thrust was generally directed toward the gaps in the armor, not the armor itself, because it was still par less useful against the gothic plate itself than a good warhammer or military pick, and a lot more expensive to make and easier to break.

We are comparing slender slashing weapons.

And for "puncturing" ain't a melee weapon made that is better than a ballistic weapon, since 3-5000 fps behind a 155 mm HEAP round generates a lot more force in one spot than even a 100 ton mech could with a thrust.