47 replies to this topic

[slide]

First off I have no problem with advancing the time line to get new tech and shake up the game.

However it makes no sense to be overlaying that advance with any reference to the Fed-Com Civil War.

FP currently has the one bucket system where all the Clans Fight against all of the IS. This kind of works as it is a natural division of the tech bases. Mixed tech has been vetoed on several occasions by PGI and I also believe they don't want to have mixed drops like we get in QP (and if we do it will be Clan Tech 90% of the time).

So the only way one bucket works is Clan v IS. So why mention the civil war at all.

If they want to do just the Steiner v Davion war then they alienate half of their player base, because it is essentially an IS only fight. Clanner's need not apply, unless to avoid alienating Clan players they introduce mixed drops which they said they wont do. Again no sense at all.

They can't have any other border wars or inter faction fights because of the one bucket.

PGI have backed them selves into a corner based on their own rules. They are either creating excitement over the Civil War, something which they can't fulfill on any basis other than a weekend/week long (Tukayyid style) event which will lead to disappointment or they have to create QP2 with in FP, by allowing mixed drops, which will probably lead to even more disappointment, particularly amongst the last remaining loyalists. Mercs likely won't care because they will be able to drop in anything.

I won't even bother to try and figure out how it is all supposed to fit in with actual history as there are just too many contradictions to list here. You can argue that we are writing our own history, fair enough, but that brings me back to why bother with the Civil War at all. They could have easily just said that after fighting the clans to a stand still for 10 years both sides have researched new tech and the war rages anew.

No matter what, PGI are setting one group or another up for yet more disappointment. I have to ask if they really think things through?

[Ibrandul Mike]

They already announced that there will be Events with fights between factions of the same faction group.
Which would make the civil war era perfect for this. If they can get events for Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS running at the same time they would even solve the IS vs Clan border problem which might arise, when the IS fights among itself.

That some factions might get less attention that others is obvious, but in this time frame there should be enough potential conflict to get the inner faction group battles as quite regular events. Let's see what PGI does with the chance they created

So from my point of view... no backing into a corner, quite the opposite.

[50 50]

It's just an event in the timeline to name a significant update with.
Don't be surprised if there is a 'Dark Age' or 'Word of Blake' expansion.

[justcallme A S H]

Game population right now in Oceanic and off peak-US/EU - cannot support in-faction style fighting.

I'm doing 4-5 ghost drops on average. PGI will know that since FP 4.1 the population has dwindled once again, because 4.1 delivered nothing.

I can't wait to see how IS vs IS will actually work, and how bad the search queue's will then be (ie, never find a game)

[Natural Predator]

justcallme A S H, on 15 March 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

Game population right now in Oceanic and off peak-US/EU - cannot support in-faction style fighting.

I'm doing 4-5 ghost drops on average. PGI will know that since FP 4.1 the population has dwindled once again, because 4.1 delivered nothing.

I can't wait to see how IS vs IS will actually work, and how bad the search queue's will then be (ie, never find a game)

I would dust off my IS mechs for that event. I think you would see a lot of clan pilots do that.

[Appogee]

justcallme A S H, on 15 March 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

4.1 delivered nothing.

4.1 did deliver some things.

But unfortunately it didn't deliver the one thing that would make it sustainable from a population perspective ... and that is some kind of matchmaking and/or separation that would stop the constant stomping of soloists and casual players.

I know that "FP is hardcore mode" and people are advised to "Just join a unit" and "git gud." But groups have been urging that for years, and yet here we still are, "wondering" where all the players went.

While the farming and stomps by experienced groups continue, soloists will continue to get discouraged and stop showing up. And FP will keep shrinking.

So IMHO the root problem that leads to the discouragement and low retention needs to be fixed.

Alternatively, I suppose when all the soloists are gone, and only large groups are left looking for matches, then I guess they'll get the better matches they say they were looking for all along. So perhaps in PGI's mind this is the way it is meant to be, anyway.

Edited by Appogee, 15 March 2017 - 11:29 AM.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Appogee, on 15 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

4.1 did deliver some things.

But unfortunately it didn't deliver the one thing that would make it sustainable from a population perspective ... and that is some kind of matchmaking and/or separation that would stop the constant stomping of soloists and casual players.

I know that "FP is hardcore mode" and people are advised to "Just join a unit" and "git gud." But groups have been urging that for years, and yet here we still are, "wondering" where all the players went.

While the farming and stomps by experienced groups continue, soloists will continue to get discouraged and stop showing up. And FP will keep shrinking.

So IMHO the root problem that leads to the discouragement and low retention needs to be fixed.

Alternatively, I suppose when all the soloists are gone, and only large groups are left looking for matches, then I guess they'll get the better matches they say they were looking for all along. So perhaps in PGI's mind this is the way it is meant to be, anyway.

Jesus thats not even close to why no one plays it.. Not one of the units that are smashing faces would turn you away at least at first if you stumbled into their voip and asked to play a game. Theres no excuse to play fw as a solo player unless thats the fight youre looking for, even then you bring 2 friends. You are the one whose ruining the experience for yourself in that regard.

[Appogee]

Redjack d3, on 15 March 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

Theres no excuse to play fw as a solo player unless thats the fight youre looking for, even then you bring 2 friends.

Appogee, on 15 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

(G)roups have been urging that for years, and yet here we still are, "wondering" where all the players went.

Redjack d3, on 15 March 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

You are the one whose ruining the experience for yourself in that regard.

No experience is being ruined for me. I don't play FP now unless it's part of a big group.

I'd just like the game and the mode to survive and thrive.

Edited by Appogee, 15 March 2017 - 01:47 PM.

[Malrock]

Redjack d3, on 15 March 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

Jesus thats not even close to why no one plays it.. Not one of the units that are smashing faces would turn you away at least at first if you stumbled into their voip and asked to play a game. Theres no excuse to play fw as a solo player unless thats the fight youre looking for, even then you bring 2 friends. You are the one whose ruining the experience for yourself in that regard.

Actually no, he is correct in his statement. What he said is exactly why no one plays it.

[Willard Phule]

Ibrandul Mike, on 15 March 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

They already announced that there will be Events with fights between factions of the same faction group.
Which would make the civil war era perfect for this. If they can get events for Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS running at the same time they would even solve the IS vs Clan border problem which might arise, when the IS fights among itself.

That some factions might get less attention that others is obvious, but in this time frame there should be enough potential conflict to get the inner faction group battles as quite regular events. Let's see what PGI does with the chance they created

So from my point of view... no backing into a corner, quite the opposite.

Not entirely sure Clan v Clan is necessary or even warranted. The entire time we were able to fight one another, we were supposed to have had a supreme leader preventing that. After the introduction of all the new toys for the IS (while ignoring half a dozen improvements the Clans made by 3067), the population is going to change. No sense in making us fight it out in the "I just want to play" queue.

[KingCobra]

Appogee said (But unfortunately it didn't deliver the one thing that would make it sustainable from a population perspective ... and that is some kind of matchmaking and/or separation that would stop the constant stomping of soloists and casual players.

I know that "FP is hardcore mode" and people are advised to "Just join a unit" and "git gud." But groups have been urging that for years, and yet here we still are, "wondering" where all the players went.

While the farming and stomps by experienced groups continue, soloists will continue to get discouraged and stop showing up. And FP will keep shrinking.

So IMHO the root problem that leads to the discouragement and low retention needs to be fixed.

Alternatively, I suppose when all the soloists are gone, and only large groups are left looking for matches, then I guess they'll get the better matches they say they were looking for all along. So perhaps in PGI's mind this is the way it is meant to be, anyway. )
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I said basically the same thing way back at the beginning of Beta1 and was ridiculed for it but now years later nothing really has changed except MWO has lost 500,000 to a million players and PGI still dont get it about Social interaction in this IP or anything else FP related.

P.S thanks apogee for bringing this back up years later maybe Russ and PGI will wise up there is always hope.
and the Civil war thing will be cool if its just events don't think there are enough players left to make it a true game mode for FP.

Edited by KingCobra, 15 March 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[Deathlike]

Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS wouldn't really revitalize FP/CW on a fundamental level.

People are trying to add in extra stuff... and it is well meaning, but the core problem with FP is still the same... so the turnout isn't going to magically improve unless the fundamental core issues are addressed. A MM is not one of them however (because that is totally dependent on population).

Edited by Deathlike, 15 March 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[slide]

Ibrandul Mike, on 15 March 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Let's see what PGI does with the chance they created

They will do what they have always done with any chance they have created. They will blow it.

PGI are very good at creating hype, not so good at delivering on it. They currently have a Skill Tree upgrade to get right, New weapons to code and a new game to work on. Do you really think they have the time or employees to code an extra bucket into FP just so they can run a weekend event (maybe a week long) event for 2 factions which may or may not even have enough active population to make such an event even function? Even if they do manage a second queue, it will only dilute the existing one whilst maybe bringing a few loyalists out of the woodwork for a while.

The only way I can see such an event working is for them to give everybody 2 penalty free faction changes (change to an event faction and then back again) for Loyalists and reset all merc contracts. This is not something they have shown any willingness to do in the past.

Edited by slide, 15 March 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Willard Phule]

slide, on 15 March 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

They will do what they have always done with any chance they have created. They will blow it.

PGI are very good at creating hype, not so good at delivering on it. They currently have a Skill Tree upgrade to get right, New weapons to code and a new game to work on. Do you really think they have the time or employees to code an extra bucket into FP just so they can run a weekend event (maybe a week long) event for 2 factions which may or may not even have enough active population to make such an event even function? Even if they do manage a second queue, it will only dilute the existing one whilst maybe bringing a few loyalists out of the woodwork for a while.

The only way I can see such an event working is for them to give everybody 2 penalty free faction changes (change to an event faction and then back again) for Loyalists and reset all merc contracts. This is not something they have shown any willingness to do in the past.

See my previous statement about poorly thought out and implemented events.

[Carl Vickers]

KingCobra, on 15 March 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I said basically the same thing way back at the beginning of Beta1 and was ridiculed for it but now years later nothing really has changed except MWO has lost 500,000 to a million players and PGI still dont get it about Social interaction in this IP or anything else FP related.

P.S thanks apogee for bringing this back up years later maybe Russ and PGI will wise up there is always hope.
and the Civil war thing will be cool if its just events don't think there are enough players left to make it a true game mode for FP.

Really, that many players, hyperbole, please look it up, any credibility you had went out the door when you made that statement.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 15 March 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Carl Vickers, on 15 March 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Really, that many players, hyperbole, please look it up, any credibility you had went out the door when you made that statement.

Still, however exaggerated, it's true. At least inasmuch as far as the die-hard BT fan base is concerned. And let's face it, PGI or not, they're really the ones that have kept the concept alive.

Without it, it's just Stompy Robots: Online.

[Mr D One]

A new approach is needed, and a possibility could be the introduction of AI or scripted opponents.

The biggest gripe I see on chat is from a group of players vs a 12 man on teamspeak.

The 5 - 12 man group could face a 48 - 64 - 100 wave of mechs like the training mode. The more opponents would yield greater c bill rewards.

The 12 man could punish the bots without suiciders, rage quitters and even without running a second account.

In the mean time groups of 4 or less would face similar non team speakers on the field.

This would also allow factions to be individual again instead of just red vs blue.

[Baphomech]

It's is unlikely have a direct interpretation, and rather be used as more of a backdrop.

http://www.sarna.net...edCom_Civil_War

Factions other than Steiner and Davion were pulled into the conflict. More out of necessity, I can envision the queues becoming mixed with Clan and IS (decrease in tech gap will help). A player can still fight for his faction, but also declares allegiance to Victor or Katherine (which is what ultimately divides the bucket). I can also see there being no clear battlefront, but a Steiner or Davion world chosen at random that players will fight over during each cycle. Special faction vs faction events could revolve around the Combine - Ghost Bear War, Falcon invasion of Conventry, Combine/Davion border clashes, Capellan conquest of Tinkinov, etc.

It may take time to iron out some of the details, but it's doable. However, FP may need better rewards and marketing to entice more players.

[KingCobra]

Carl V said (Really, that many players, hyperbole, please look it up, any credibility you had went out the door when you made that statement. )
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Carl there were over a million registered players in MWO the first year and even if you take off 10% for alt accounts that still well over 500,000 active players.

So suck it up buttercup and welcome to the reality of PGI and there magic Island were all floating on.

[Carl Vickers]

Please provide evidence KC.

Seeing as you cant even quote properly I am disinclined to believe you.