73 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

AlexEss, on 05 April 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

No.. You see if we agree that they are P2W... That also means that the actual balance is off. That in turn means that they provide an substantial advantage. This in turn make them mandatory for their chassie in a comp situation due to "bleeding edge" So either A: they would still be banned or B: it would become a mandatory grind.

Mandatory grind is already there and it depends on what you play on whether you would have to grind for that.

TercieI, on 05 April 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I'm really skeptical of "make a CB version" ideas because I think they'll undercut hero sales dramatically, but this just might find the balance. I'd be more likely to still spend for heroes if the CB version was extremely expensive CB-wise.

Which is stupid to sell things based on that premise in the first place, which is why PGI have sort of painted themselves into a corner with heroes especially given the potential issues with them in a ranked queue.

[R Valentine]

Heroes really should only have the C-bill bonus on them. They shouldn't have anything else unique. Just take the best variant from each class, attach a 30% c-bill bonus, paint them pretty, and call it donzo. Putting anything else on them other variants can't get just breaks the system sooner or later. It's especially problematic on clan mechs where omni-pods can hop to non-hero variants.

[MischiefSC]

I would say a better option for PGI is having heroes be available for a higher cbills cost but then let players buy any variant with the 30% bonus for real money/ MC.

It's buy more MC mechs if I could pick the variant. Heroes are nice and all but people would spend more real money if they had more control over what it got them.

[Khobai]

if heroes cost cbills thered be no reason to pay $ for them

so no this is a stupid idea

[Cy Mitchell]

Khobai, on 05 April 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

if heroes cost cbills thered be no reason to pay $ for them

so no this is a stupid idea

You missed the part where they would not actually be "Heroes" because they would lack the C-bill bonus and the camo. Plus they would be VERY expensive. Buying Mechs with cash is supposed to save you grind. Not having to grind 40 million c-bills + the camo + the c-bill bonus = people would still pay $ for them.

[Khobai]

Quote

You missed the part where they would not actually be "Heroes" because they would lack the C-bill bonus

Except if you have the cbills to buy a hero mech at 10000 times its MC value then you dont need the cbill bonus because youre a rich mother!@#$er. derp.

[Lupis Volk]

You know, why couldn't you do what PGI did with the loyalty mechs. Make them slightly more expensive than your regular one without the bonus and pretty skin.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 05 April 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

if heroes cost cbills thered be no reason to pay $ for them

so no this is a stupid idea

You actually have to look at all aspects of the idea to evaluate it properly. When the C-bill cost is high, especially when it doesn't have the c-bill boost or special camo, its a lot easier to justify buying with cash or MC.

By your logic, there is no reason to buy mech packs yet people do ALL THE TIME! Come back when you have some intelligent analysis of the proposal.

[Khobai]

Quote

You actually have to look at all aspects of the idea to evaluate it properly. When the C-bill cost is high, especially when it doesn't have the c-bill boost or special camo, its a lot easier to justify buying with cash or MC.

um no. because i have more cbills than things to spend them on.

if heroes cost cbills I would just buy them with cbills. I wouldnt spend $ on the game anymore.

you act like cbills are hard to get or something... theyre not. being a cbillionaire is an easy thing.

im sorry you fail at earning cbills. but its quite easy to make several million cbills per night of playing. You can easily reach a billion cbills in less than 6 months of playing if you use premium time and +30% cbill mechs. And anyone whos still sticking around to play this game and hasnt bailed yet has likely been playing longer than 6 months.

hero mechs are really PGIs only revenue stream. and you wanna shut it down by making them available for an in-game currency thats easy to obtain. thats idiocy. Thats how you tank MWO. If the topic was "how do we get MWO to fail" then your idea would be at the top of the list. But for this particular topic its way at the bottom.

A better solution is just to balance hero mechs so theyre not Pay2Win. You give them both interesting advantages and drawbacks to balance out those advantages.

For example, the hero hellbringer has a pay2win right torso omnipod with 2E which is better than the cbill omnipod thats only 1E. You could add a negative quirk that reduces the hellbringers mobility when it uses the 2E right torso omnipod. Then it has a drawback and its not strictly superior.

People just need to get over their irrational dislike of negative quirks and realize why they need to exist. Because not all omnipods are created equal, some will be better than others, some will be worse, and the only way to balance them is with both positive and negative quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 05 April 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 05 April 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

Except if you have the cbills to buy a hero mech at 10000 times its MC value then you dont need the cbill bonus because youre a rich mother!@#$er. derp.

Yeah we could only evaluate edge cases or we could look at the fact the players typically don't have hundred of millions of c-bills laying around to go buy mechs that cost 30-60 million C-bills, especially true F2P players.

Khobai, on 05 April 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

um no. because i have more cbills than things to spend them on.

if heroes cost cbills I would just buy them with cbills. I wouldnt spend $ on the game.

you act like cbills are hard to get or something... theyre not. being a cbillionaire is an easy thing.

I don't know very many C-billionaires. Its not all about you. Not everyone has enough time to grind that much. How many mechs do you have? I have over 300, but usually fluctuate between 0 and 50 million C-bills available. I think you are the exception, not the rule.

[Gas Guzzler]

In any case, shooting down the entire idea because you personally can afford to buy several hundred million C-bills worth of mechs is a joke. Still more than enough incentive for me to buy the heros for cash, especially getting them early (like mech packs).

[Khobai]

Quote

In any case, shooting down the entire idea because you personally can afford to buy several hundred million C-bills worth of mechs is a joke. Still more than enough incentive for me to buy the heros for cash, especially getting them early (like mech packs).

I shot down the idea because actually balancing hero mechs the way I suggested above, is a way better solution.

1) we get balanced hero mechs with drawbacks and no more pay2win.

2) PGI keeps their primary revenue stream intact

3) I dont have to spend hundreds of millions of cbills

everyone wins.

Edited by Khobai, 05 April 2017 - 01:16 PM.

[Ken Harkin]

Because all of MWO should be free and PGI should do everything out of the goodness of their hearts... Yeah, I've never understood the issue of having a small amount of items as only available for real money being such an issue when there are tons of FTP mechs available which are as competitive or better than the hero versions depending on your build of choice.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 05 April 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

I shot down the idea because actually balancing hero mechs the way I suggested above, is a way better solution.

1) we get balanced hero mechs with drawbacks and no more pay2win.

2) PGI keeps their primary revenue stream intact

3) I dont have to spend hundreds of millions of cbills

everyone wins.

1) Balanced with over variants or other chassis? Your little mobility negative quirks don't offer that much of a reason to not get more optimal hardpoints, but with more significant negative quirks, your risk making a mech that already isn't optimal compared to another chassis even less optimal. See EBJ vs HBR when it comes to laser vomit. I'm not convinced we can get actual balance just by negative quirks. Negative mobility quirks didn't stop anyone from using the S right torso on the Timber. Still the go-to, so your plan might sound great on paper, but in reality, its not quite practical.

2) Nothing about my plan should have a huge impact on revenue stream. In fact, they would have a higher revenue stream from me, and anyone interested in "ranked" mode would also have more of an interest since the mechs wouldn't be banned from ranked mode or other competitive leagues.

3) Nobody says you have to spend hundreds of millions of c-bills. If you don't want to do that you can use cash or MC. I know I would use cash or MC because I don't have that many C-bills and would rather skip the grind. I'm pretty sure 9/10 would be in the same boat as me, but they have the option to grind, keeping it truly F2P. The fact that people buy cash pre-orders for mechs that will be available for free should be evidence enough for this.

[LordNothing]

just put in some trickle sources of mc. like 1mc victory pay for every win, (limit 5 per day). if you hit all the events, save mc, and wait for sales, you can buy many heros for free. you can get a lot of mc from fp ranking, and capping planets i suppose (but the percentage of players actually capable of doing this is small). but it would be nice if you could earn it slowly over time, especially for the more average players who wouldnt touch fp at gunpoint.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 April 2017 - 01:47 PM.

[Mystere]

Ken Harkin, on 05 April 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Because all of MWO should be free and PGI should do everything out of the goodness of their hearts... Yeah, I've never understood the issue of having a small amount of items as only available for real money being such an issue when there are tons of FTP mechs available which are as competitive or better than the hero versions depending on your build of choice.

Amen!

This thread and MWO's forumwarrior segment really make me chuckle. For what is essentially a niche game, people here are so much worried over things other games with much larger populations do not (or I just do not see or hear about it ). An example is War Thunder and it's premium-only vehicles. I don't seem much complaining about them. In fact, ihe only wild things I have seen to far in the P2W front are tinfoil hat worthy complaints about how paying premium time improves your weapons' capabilities.

Edited by Mystere, 05 April 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 05 April 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Amen!

This thread and MWO's forumwarrior segment really make me chuckle. For what is essentially a niche game, people are so much worried over things other games with much larger populations do not (or I just do not hear about it ). An example is War Thunder and it's premium-only vehicles. The only wild things I have seen to far are tinfoil hat worthy complaints about how paying premium time improves you're weapons' capabilities.

Don't pretend to understand my motivations, because you clearly have not an ounce of undertstanding.


My primary motivator is making these mechs NOT banned from the ranked mode or comp leagues, not making it so I can buy them with c-bills.

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 April 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

Don't pretend to understand my motivations, because you clearly have not an ounce of undertstanding.

My primary motivator is making these mechs NOT banned from the ranked mode or comp leagues, not making it so I can buy them with c-bills.

I understand more than you think, and I believe the solution is simple but people just seem to refuse to acknowledge it: don't ban them. Instead, compel PGI to improve balancing as Khobai has said.

[Void Angel]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Seriously, people who think this game is grindy are seriously sheltered. Go try to get your hands on the USS Missouri in World of War Ships, then get back to me about the Grind here.....
.

Innoruuk's. Will.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 05 April 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

I understand more than you think, and I believe the solution is simple but people just seem to refuse to acknowledge it: don't ban them. Instead, compel PGI to improve balancing as Khobai has said.

Because PGI has a track record of perfectly balancing things? TBR-S Right Torso: Virtual shall use despite negative quirks TBR-A Left Torso: NOPE

Unless the negative quirks are astronomical, most of the time extra hardpoints are still going to win out, especially for specific cases where hardpoints are in short supply.

Essentially, its not going to work. You are still going to have pay 2 optimize.... unless you can also have access to those options through excessive grind. Not sure what negative effect that has on you and Khobai, its like OH SO TERRIBLE that someone might be able to grind out a hero mech without having to pay for it. I won't be doing that, if its good for me to want I'll buy it with cash or MC on sale.