101 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Damn it. I was having fun mocking PGI for its lack of awareness about its own game, and now I have to mock some of you guys.

P2W? You're worried about buying something with real money and that PGI... the company that hasn't seen a nerf it didn't like...and that they will allow it to remain super duper OP? That they will allow it to remain even super duper niche? Or that they will allow it to remain even super duper average?

Okay, I guess all those whine threads when the Cheetah got its initial nerfs, or the Kodiak got its nerfs, or when the loyalty Summoner got its nerfs, or when whatever was even for a moment "OP' got its nerfs were all just a mirage.

Now excuse me I have to log on and go play my Oxide and Huggin. I heard one has OP structure quirks and the other a super duper rate of fire. P2W here I come!

[Sjorpha]

Coolant, on 05 April 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

There is no way any Hero mech is P2W....p2W stands for Pay to Win and you are not guaranteed to win with these mechs. And, there is nothing to win anyway.

P2W is when paying money gives you access to stronger options than not paying, "pay to win" in this context means paying for increased odds of winning, not guaranteed wins.

It would be extremely silly to insist on your definition, it would make the term useless as it would never ever apply.

If the most competitive builds on any given omnimech requires the hero/loyalty pods then it is by definition pay to win.

[TheArisen]

Russ on the new heroes and nerfing as needed.

[Bud Crue]

TheArisen, on 06 April 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

Russ on the new heroes and nerfing as needed.

...

So, any bets on if the nerfs come before or after the preorder sales are closed? After the mechs go live?

What some are calling P2W, PGI just calls: "marketing".

Edited by Bud Crue, 06 April 2017 - 03:12 AM.

[TheArisen]

Bud Crue, on 06 April 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

So, any bets on if the nerfs come before or after the preorder sales are closed? After the mechs go live?

What some are calling P2W, PGI just calls: "marketing".

Well Russ said they're willing to do refunds so I guess it could be some crazy marketing method or just they attempted to make interesting heroes that turned out to be too good.

[Bud Crue]

TheArisen, on 06 April 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

Well Russ said they're willing to do refunds so I guess it could be some crazy marketing method or just they attempted to make interesting heroes that turned out to be too good.

Do you really think many will ask for refunds on their P2W mechs if they really are OP?

After the fact, they will not give refunds on a mech that you've been playing for a 2 months and then it gets nerfed. That is just normal method of doing business around here.

[kesmai]

There is a reason mrbc banned hero mechs...
Too sad the first batches where quite the opposite to p2w.

[Mole]

Do we have to have this discussion every time PGI releases a new 'mech?

[Almond Brown]

kesmai, on 06 April 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

There will be always a hardcore following of ~6000-10000 players for this game.
About a quarter of them will buy almost every shite from pgi.
Go figure...

And if it helps get rid of the GD WHINING Cheapskates, then I say lets have er PGI...

Edited by Almond Brown, 06 April 2017 - 08:42 AM.

[Pika]

Clans might get a useful 'Mech?

"P2W!" screamed the geriatric army.

(Edit: Before the hate piles in I just realised that a few people may not get this. More than a few. In the UK, in the Btech circles I used to play with at least, always had that guy. Someone who had been with Btech since the start and always looked back to "The good old days!" and would get irrationally mad about anything clan related. Whenever anything came out that was even related to the clans, before anyone had seen it work or on paper or anything else, they'd flip their **** about how it was going to be broken and clans are stealing their wives and jobs.

We used to ask them what it was like, serving in the geriatric army. It was something of a little meme around the north UK Btech scene I guess some years back.)

Edited by Pika, 06 April 2017 - 09:01 AM.

[KingCobra]

Coolant, on 05 April 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

There is no way any Hero mech is P2W....p2W stands for Pay to Win and you are not guaranteed to win with these mechs. And, there is nothing to win anyway.

I disagree I am the winner last night beating 4 sync dropping hackers in solo MM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pika, on 06 April 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Clans might get a useful 'Mech?

"P2W!" screamed the geriatric army.

Yeah Clans don't have any useful mechs, its a real balance problem.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anjian, on 05 April 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

Contrary to the title, the trend for F2P in the game industry seems to be borderline or grey area P2W. This is especially with mobile. Heck I am just polite. Just P2W simple. Players don't seem to be bothered with it either, in fact they demand they get their money's worth.

Yeah, I hear you don't have to pay IRL money to win in WoT or World of Warships.... as long as you have about two years of your live to grind for the vehicles instead. And they seem to be doing HORRIBLY in customer retention. :/

BTW I am in no way in favor of P2W and really think PGI is making a mistake with some of the recent heroes. That said the OP's logic is quite simply not supported by fact.

[Pika]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 April 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Yeah, I hear you don't have to pay IRL money to win in WoT or World of Warships.... as long as you have about two years of your live to grind for the vehicles instead. And they seem to be doing HORRIBLY in customer retention. :/

BTW I am in no way in favor of P2W and really think PGI is making a mistake with some of the recent heroes. That said the OP's logic is quite simply not supported by fact.

Eh~ not really true. Post T4/5 you essentially need to maintain premium time. If you won't pay then you basically better not have a job or friends because the grind is absolutely nuts. You could get to 110 in WoW faster than getting to T6 without Premium.

[Dogstar]

>This is one of the most sacred pillars of F2P.
Wow! Talk about hyperbole!

F2P isn't some holy book, it's a means for a company to publish their game. There's a huge variety of different types of F2P monetisation so moaning about some pods in some mechs is just tedious

[Bishop Steiner]

Pika, on 06 April 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Eh~ not really true. Post T4/5 you essentially need to maintain premium time. If you won't pay then you basically better not have a job or friends because the grind is absolutely nuts. You could get to 110 in WoW faster than getting to T6 without Premium.

Which was my point. In theory you can do it, but as I noted..it takes like a year to grind enough for the Missouri in WoWS. If you full time game. Meaning in relaity, for most people, it's still a "p2w" option, because even full time gamers are not going to grind that. And if you incidental game on WoWS like I do... probably take 5 bloody years to get the ship.

[MischiefSC]

The reality is that mediocre players like a bit of P2W. It helps them pretend they are better than they are for a bit of money. P2W is having an advantage because you paid money over someone who doesn't. A 30% cbill/xp bonus doesn't really create that, better hardpoints/quirks/performance does.

There is no logical justification for it save catering to people who want to be able to pay money to have an advantage over someone who didn't pay monry. Not because they have more skill, just an advantage based on the money they spent. Saying "well they wouldn't spend the money if it didn't give them an advantage" is just acknowledging the reality that some people suck at the game and are happy to spend money to create the illusion that they don't suck as much.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 06 April 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

The reality is that mediocre players like a bit of P2W. It helps them pretend they are better than they are for a bit of money. P2W is having an advantage because you paid money over someone who doesn't. A 30% cbill/xp bonus doesn't really create that, better hardpoints/quirks/performance does.

There is no logical justification for it save catering to people who want to be able to pay money to have an advantage over someone who didn't pay monry. Not because they have more skill, just an advantage based on the money they spent. Saying "well they wouldn't spend the money if it didn't give them an advantage" is just acknowledging the reality that some people suck at the game and are happy to spend money to create the illusion that they don't suck as much.

and yet, for all that.. tons of "comp" players take advantage of P2W also.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 April 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

and yet, for all that.. tons of "comp" players take advantage of P2W also.

Absolutely - because if you're competitive turn you'll do what you need to do to compete. However it's also worth mentioning that while scrubs like me absolutely spent the $ for the Scorch and the JFK at release because, well, free stat padding isn't free (P2W is just like freedom that way, right?) most comp environments don't allow cash only mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

MischiefSC, on 06 April 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Absolutely - because if you're competitive turn you'll do what you need to do to compete. However it's also worth mentioning that while scrubs like me absolutely spent the $ for the Scorch and the JFK at release because, well, free stat padding isn't free (P2W is just like freedom that way, right?) most comp environments don't allow cash only mechs.

The Scorch is P2W? I have found the other variants to be better at everything except brawling. JFK? Jade Kite? I guess that one lets you do the massed UAC2s better... haven't tried that yet.