18 replies to this topic

[Carminus]

I have been using the Archer for quite sometime (mastered), but for some reason recently it has been rather prone to being killed quickly. Granted, I am using a XL engine but usually I can take some beating with shielding.

I do not keep any ammo in the side torso and my armor is maxed. My last match it only took a few shots and my tempest went down quickly. It wasn't even a large alpha. It's been consistently going down faster after the patch.

Maybe it has to do something with the missile doors (which already has a bad fire delay) not giving a defense bonus?

Something is up with my lurmer boat :/

Build

-Paul

Edited by Carminus, 06 April 2017 - 05:57 PM.

[Archer Magnus]

Nice build mate! I only have the Tempest from the Archer line-up, I will give your build a test.

(my user-name has Archer, Archery is a big hobby of mine. But I do like the show "Acher", and I do have one Archer mech. Wheeew)

[Snazzy Dragon]

Archer has mad dog style hitboxes, without the benefits of the clan XL. Therein lies the issue.

[El Bandito]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 April 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Archer has mad dog style hitboxes, without the benefits of the clan XL. Therein lies the issue.

And super low cockpit, which ensures that Archer must expose significant part of its torsi just to be able to look at the enemy, unlike the Mad Dog. PGI dun goofed.

See how much the Archer has to expose when peeking?




In comparison, Mad Dog's exposure is minimal:

[Snazzy Dragon]

^ I still wonder why the archers have no armor quirks to make up for that BS ^

[The Lobsters]

They're not made of glass, but they are bullet magnets, especially with such a low cockpit/high torsos, it's easy to find yourself not entirely in cover, they really stick out. Run them with a standard engine as a barefaced srm brawler and you'll really start to appreciate those structure quirks.

They're not actually the best mechs for serious lrm work imo, unless you're going for rearguard lurmtard completely in cover, firing indirectly. Having the cockpit so low means you really have to present yourself to get the los artemis spread bonus. I've found, you either have to hide completely, or better still be out towards the rear of the murder ball. Find charlie lance, stick with them and shoot what they shoot.



ed. Charlie lance are bigger bullet magnets than you, hopefully.



.

Edited by The Lobsters, 06 April 2017 - 07:44 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Learn torso twisting, spread dmg, live longer.

Given more LRM boaters just "stare" blindly because they don't realise they can unlock arms and maintain target locks while twisting... This comes as zero surprise.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Carminus, on 06 April 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

I have been using the Archer for quite sometime (mastered), but for some reason recently it has been rather prone to being killed quickly. Granted, I am using a XL engine but usually I can take some beating with shielding.

I do not keep any ammo in the side torso and my armor is maxed. My last match it only took a few shots and my tempest went down quickly. It wasn't even a large alpha. It's been consistently going down faster after the patch.

Maybe it has to do something with the missile doors (which already has a bad fire delay) not giving a defense bonus?

Something is up with my lurmer boat :/

Build

-Paul

the Tempest is GREAT with its ECM... the rest are just awful for all the reasons previously pointed out. But your build is definitely not that great... get rid of the LRM5 which is occupying premium Energy slots & put your TAG there, bump the LRM15s up to 20s (same spread), swap the MPL for MLs, and put in a 300 XL.

putting the TAG above your cockpit allows for unseen hill peeking... if i can see over the hill then I know i am too high, but speeds up targeting when you hit a mech with it and launch all 40 then slide down again. Arm mounted TAG gets blocked my way too much stuff in comparison.

[Alex Morgaine]

Standard engines make em Tanky though.

[Jackal Noble]

Archers are great, just very niche.
The 5w can be the bane of matches, and the tempest is hell's fun.

Not drunk I swears.

Edited by JackalBeast, 06 April 2017 - 09:36 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

PGI should rework the Archer, raise the cockpit, and make the hangar doors double doors. At this rate currently, god quirks would just further complicate the problem than produce a solution.

[Escef]

Wow, that's a lot of ammo. I run just as much ammo on my ALRM50 BLR -1S. I think my Tempest is 2*LRM15, LRM10, 4*ML, with a standard 280. Artemis doesn't do much without LOS, stay hidden, use your ECM to protect yourself from counter-battery fire, AMS is kind of a waste. Late game, the quad mediums are good finishers.

Seismic sensor is your friend, equip it and glance at your minimap every now and again, not just to help keep track of the tactical situation, but to check if anyone is creeping up on your position.

That and mind your range. 200-500 meters is ideal. Keeps the flight time short, making you more relevant. Also tends to keep you closer to friendlies, just in case you get jumped and need help.

[Paigan]

Carminus, on 06 April 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

[...]
Something is up with my lurmer boat :/

Build

There have already been mentioned a lot of goods points, but I have some to add:

1.)
Mechs can all have the same maximum amount of hitpoints in their respective weight class (apart from quirks), so all "made of glass?" suspicions for Mechs are naive per se.
Hitboxes are a topic, but not the actual hitpoints.

2.)
I wonder no one mentioned it before, but without case, doesn't that mean basically a crit to any ammo slot kills you off right away? Without XL, you could shield the CT from ammo explosions, but with XL, even a crit to the LA or a leg can kill you instantly.
I usually play only ammo-less clan Mechs, but now that I think of it: builds like that could really qualify as "glass builds", don't they?

Edited by Paigan, 07 April 2017 - 03:53 AM.

[Vellron2005]

I use a LRM archer with a similar build to the OP's, altho it's a different variant, without ECM, and with 6 medium lasers..

Trust me, it's a great mech, one of my most successful mechs overall.. My play style with it to keep to the rear, second line, and LRM from cover, until all ammo expended, than move in with the lasers..

I get plenty of kills and do lots of damage easily..

The secret is - Standard engine.. Also.. Keep moving! You have to always be in motion.. motion is life in this game, especially for LRM boats..

Don't expect to go 1 on 1 with enemies, hit them where it hurts.. engage targets others are engaging, and support from medium range, but ideally from behind cover.

Yes, direct fire dakka overlords will call you a lurmtard, but you can pay them back when you kill them without them ever laying eyes on you..

Edited by Vellron2005, 07 April 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[HGAK47]

I only have the one archer and dont have loads of games in it yet, I like the mech but it does seem very vulnerable for its class.

Are we not forever going to run into the problem of high cockpits and high mouted weapons are always going to be preferd as you offer much less area for your enemies to shoot back at?

After seeing El Bandito's comparison, I can see now that I didnt realise how much of a solid block of metal is on show when peeking in the Archer! That explains a lot, its also quite elemantary but I didnt always consider that when playing so thanks.

I think I will take Vellron's advice and start using it with a standard engine (come on PGI give us those light engines already)

Edited by HGAK47, 07 April 2017 - 03:57 AM.

[Carminus]

I do shield, as I said in my first post (I do twist). Now, this is not my ORG build this is my master build. My Org build had a larger XL engine (300) and Med Lasers.

From here on out when referring to LRM's I have Artemis equipped.

To answer the question why I use LRM 5 in the CT. I found for some reason (I do not know why) the other LRMs in the left and right torso fire faster when grouped together with the CT LRM5. Try it, maybe it's in my head but I am telling you that with the LRM 5 in the CT the LT and RT LRM 15's fire quicker. That is why my TAG is on my arm and not CT.

Also, the LRM 5 fires first which keeps the AMS busy (if the target has it) while the two 15's hit.

To answer why I use LRM 15 vs 20, I saw a few articles floating around showing the spread difference. I felt the extra heat and cool down and spread of the 20 was not worth it so I went with the 15.

I play within 400-600 of target with tag. I do my own work and not ask other players to lock for me. I hang around assaults giving them my ECM and longer ranger fire support. The med pulse lasers are enough to push back some lights. The DAKKA does give me challenge as I cannot keep tag on them so it does require in-direct fire.

As I said, I have been using this Temptest boat for a while and have tried every config from laser vomit to SRM's which suck for the Temptest because of the doors. My build usually works for *me* but it seems more fragile. That's all I am trying to say

I have mastered the Tempest and my others are on elite. The 5w will be sweet when summer hits with 9 missile hard points, right now I am using srms with it.

[KodiakGW]

I got all the Archers when announced. Was disappointed when released. Leveled them, and promptly abandoned them. They have been stripped and shelved ever since.

Against mechs like the Night Gyr, they have to expose much more to deliver less firepower down field. It seems like they are glass because there is a lot more laser meta builds in game. Since you need to stare at your target to get/hold missile lock, you can't spread damage as effectively.

Have not sold mine, yet. Waiting to see what Light Fusion Engines will do for them.

[LowSubmarino]

Yeah....archer goes down ridiculously easy. And a lot of ppl run XL in them.

While I have to unload a shitload of double ppc alphas into a timberwolf the archer melts easier than an arctic cheetah. Which is a light mech hehe.

Its a bad mech.

Of course you can get some decent results but even Tier 1 and 2 games are usually made up of about 75 - 95 % absolute beginners.

You can get good results in the worst mechs. But against any semi-good competition the archer melts so quickly that even much ligther and less armored mechs - with much better hitboxes - seem like tanks.

Its a very abysmal mech. Id never run it. Too weak.

But I always smile when I snipe and then an archer walks into my line of sight. No matter where you sthoot it. Itll hit the torsos. And they are biiiiiggggggg.

Looks kinda cool i hink. But id give it a rating of 2 or 3 out of 10. And thats being very generous.

[SilentWolff]

Carminus, on 06 April 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

I have been using the Archer for quite sometime (mastered), but for some reason recently it has been rather prone to being killed quickly. Granted, I am using a XL engine but usually I can take some beating with shielding.

I do not keep any ammo in the side torso and my armor is maxed. My last match it only took a few shots and my tempest went down quickly. It wasn't even a large alpha. It's been consistently going down faster after the patch.

Maybe it has to do something with the missile doors (which already has a bad fire delay) not giving a defense bonus?

Something is up with my lurmer boat :/

Build

-Paul

I'd suggest removing the 3 med pulse and replace with 5 mediums for a start. Play mid range where you.can use both your meds and missles. You will wreck stuff. Also, don't pop up and down, go side to side. That cockpit being so low is a killer.
Hope this helps some.