25 replies to this topic

[Joseph Ward]

Dear PGI,

Do you even watch the results of your patching?

Your incessant nerfing of Clan mechs & equipment has succeeded in making CW completely unplayable for us career loyalists.

9 out of 10 faction games we lose comprehensively; not even to effective units, but to ragtag groups of smug IS pilots now enjoying better gear and that luxurious advantage of dropdeck tonnage you also gave them.

Insult to injury. Either sort this out, or we quit. Enough said.

Sincerely,

JW


PS also, what is with letting our mechs now sustain damage inside dropships before even dropping into play? I just dropped into a CW brawl with 6% leg damage (a nice shade of orange) to an ACH. Incredible.

[B0oN]

One question, out of interest .

How is your dropdeck looking ?
Which mechs + which loadouts .

[Invictus XVII]

Sounds like youre used to wrecking **** with superior clan gear, having an easy time.

If IS wanted to win a year ago, they had to rely more on teamplay even with vastly inferior mechs and weaponry. Now that its a more even playingfield techwise, IS loyalists still have a better average teamplay due to this fact. If its hard, you have to improve your piloting skills and teamplay. Having it easy does not nurture skill.

[Weepy Wanebow]

will vouch that a little over a year ago, that unless the IS team was made up of amazing good players or the clan team was total scrubs, that basically IS had to use solid team work to win. This was true regardless of if it was a clan skittles team or a clan 12 man. Things seems to be a bit more balanced as far as both sides having to use a little bit of coordination to get things happening.

The main difference is that a lot of IS loyalist are on every IS TeamSpeak server and jump around to find a group and drop with but it seems clans still sorta stick to their units and specific clans more. IS players are used to having a skittles 12 man made up of who is available while most clan players aren't. It is a learning curve for clan players is all.

I will say that the component health changes hit clan's particularly hard. I think that mathematically it is pretty fair but it is a significant change to adjust to, that is for sure.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Joseph Ward, on 11 April 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

Dear PGI,

Do you even watch the results of your patching?

Your incessant nerfing of Clan mechs & equipment has succeeded in making CW completely unplayable for us career loyalists.

9 out of 10 faction games we lose comprehensively; not even to effective units, but to ragtag groups of smug IS pilots now enjoying better gear and that luxurious advantage of dropdeck tonnage you also gave them.

Insult to injury. Either sort this out, or we quit. Enough said.

Sincerely,

JW


PS also, what is with letting our mechs now sustain damage inside dropships before even dropping into play? I just dropped into a CW brawl with 6% leg damage (a nice shade of orange) to an ACH. Incredible.

It's not the tech, buddy. It's the pilot.

I'm running wolf loyalist right now, 2 basic mechs in my deck and usually a bottle of gin involved too. Yet, i contribute usually more then the 2-4 lowest scored teammates together.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Just to be fair, it is PGI's fault. Clans have tech while IS has numbers. That is how they balanced it in the lore. I could go on for a while about how it would be better to have us drop with 10 or even 8 mechs (provided our tech was restored) and that would balance things out since the IS already have the numbers (6 factions to our 4), but I would just be repeating myself.

Personally, I find it ironic that the same people who complain the Clans need to be nerfed to 1-1 (even though the IS has greater DPS than we do currently) also say the mech prices in-game are fair despite our mechs being 2-5 times more expensive with mech mastery packages being available to IS mechs alone because Clan mechs are supposed to be better (massive IS quirks are free however). Anybody else notice all this?

In FW Invasion, the IS not only gets more tonnage to play with but if they bring a 20-ton locust (which is a viscous little mech) they would still have 245 tons to split between their remaining 3 mechs (so 1 light and 3 assaults if they wanted) while we have to split 240 tons between 4 mechs with no 20-tonners. Hell, most people cannot make our single 25-tonner (Myst Lynx) work. That means the lightest most Clan pilots can go is 30 tons which constricts our already limited options even further. In scouting as well, the number of mech types we are able to choose from is much more limited compared to the IS (some of whom are still complaining that we need to nerfed down to 45 tons for scouting).

Lastly, we all know that PGI hates the Clans and really screwed up how they introduced them to the game. These facts are obvious (especially when you consider the three preceding paragraphs). Frankly, I think this guy says it best.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 11 April 2017 - 10:57 AM.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Jep Jorgensson, on 11 April 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Just to be fair, it is PGI's fault. Clans have tech while IS has numbers. That is how they balanced it in the lore. I could go on for a while about how it would be better to have us drop with 10 or even 8 mechs (provided our tech was restored) and that would balance things out since the IS already have the numbers (6 factions to our 4), but I would just be repeating myself.

This would kill QP, and (IIRC) has been declined by PGI for the time being.
I also feel it would be bad for gameplay, as it would require a delicate balance to make asymmetric battle work (PGI hasn't always been the best at delicate balance).

Jep Jorgensson, on 11 April 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Personally, I find it ironic that the same people who complain the Clans need to be nerfed to 1-1 (even though the IS has greater DPS than we do currently) also say the mech prices in-game are fair despite our mechs being 2-5 times more expensive with mech mastery packages being available to IS mechs alone because Clan mechs are supposed to be better (massive IS quirks are free however). Anybody else notice all this?

I am in favor of Clan prices being reduced. This might also provide more incentive for new players to not go IS, and could help balance the number of new players on each side. If the Skill Tree would stop being delayed, then IS would not have such massive quirks.

Jep Jorgensson, on 11 April 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

In FW Invasion, the IS not only gets more tonnage to play with but if they bring a 20-ton locust (which is a viscous little mech) they would still have 245 tons to split between their remaining 3 mechs (so 1 light and 3 assaults if they wanted) while we have to split 240 tons between 4 mechs with no 20-tonners. Hell, most people cannot make our single 25-tonner (Myst Lynx) work. That means the lightest most Clan pilots can go is 30 tons which constricts our options even further. In scouting as well, the number of mech types we are able to choose from is much more limited compared to the IS (some of whom are still complaining that we need to nerfed down to 45 tons for scouting).

Tonnage should only be adjusted to account for fine changes in meta/balance that can't wait for a balance patch. As the tonnage has been in favor of IS for a while now, I feel there should have been a balance patch of some sort to better balance things out (and enable the tonnage to be reverted to even).
As it is, things are far more balanced now than they were immediately before the tonnage change. This has nothing to do with clan-hating; it's an attempt at balance that is being used for long-term balance that, IMO, should only have been used for short-term balance.

Jep Jorgensson, on 11 April 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Lastly, we all know that PGI hates the Clans and really screwed up how they introduced them to the game. These facts are obvious (especially when you consider the three preceding paragraphs). Frankly, I think this guy says it best.

This bit is all whine and no content .
I happen to disagree, but I'll leave it at that.

Edited by Fox the Apprentice, 11 April 2017 - 11:00 AM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Fox the Apprentice, on 11 April 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

This would kill QP, and (IIRC) has been declined by PGI for the time being.
I also feel it would be bad for gameplay, as it would require a delicate balance to make asymmetric battle work (PGI hasn't always been the best at delicate balance).

We can always try the BV (Battle Value) system from the TT (Table Top) for QP. Or (what I suggested) have Clan mechs count as 1.2 mechs against the limit of 12 in QP so that there would be less of them per group. Also, PGI said that dropping with unequal numbers was out because they "cannot" do it (must be the 1980's again). The guy I linked in my last post said it better though.

Fox the Apprentice, on 11 April 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

I am in favor of Clan prices being reduced. This might also provide more incentive for new players to not go IS, and could help balance the number of new players on each side. If the Skill Tree would stop being delayed, then IS would not have such massive quirks.

Possibly; we shall see.

Fox the Apprentice, on 11 April 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

Tonnage should only be adjusted to account for fine changes in meta/balance that can't wait for a balance patch. As the tonnage has been in favor of IS for a while now, I feel there should have been a balance patch of some sort to better balance things out (and enable the tonnage to be reverted to even).
As it is, things are far more balanced now than they were immediately before the tonnage change. This has nothing to do with clan-hating; it's an attempt at balance that is being used for long-term balance that, IMO, should only have been used for short-term balance.

Do not misunderstand me. I was just stating facts. Simple as that. I am not saying that our tonnage was reduced just because PGI hates us. I was just simply stating here that it is reduced and that constricts our already limited options against higher DPS IS mechs.

Fox the Apprentice, on 11 April 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

This bit is all whine and no content .
I happen to disagree, but I'll leave it at that.

Hey, it is not whining to say someone that said they hate us hates us. It is a statement of fact. Besides, do you disagree that they screwed up how they introduced Clan mechs into the game? I doubt it. Furthermore, I linked a page to a guy that essentially puts what I have said into detailed perspective. Did you read what he had to say? Do you agree, disagree, or what?

Here is another person to help illustrate some of what I am saying.

Basic summary of what I am trying to say is:

1. PGI is incompetent (big shocker).

2. PGI favors the IS (another shocker).

3. As you mentioned yourself, due to the ease of obtaining and mastering IS mechs, many newbs start there and some eventually join us after they get good, leaving the other newbs in the IS.

4. Partly because of PGI incompetence (including #3), many IS'ers have become big complainers (especially the aforementioned newbs) but are also still PGI's biggest clientele/source of money which screws up the game even more due to PGI catering to the lowest common denominator.

That is pretty much it (off the top of my head for right now anyway). I was just simply stating some facts and nothing more.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 11 April 2017 - 12:55 PM.

[B0oN]

Guys ... notice how the OP still hasn´t even answered my question .

Stop blowing things up just for the sake of an argument .

[Tesunie]

Joseph Ward, on 11 April 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

Dear PGI,

Do you even watch the results of your patching?

Your incessant nerfing of Clan mechs & equipment has succeeded in making CW completely unplayable for us career loyalists.

9 out of 10 faction games we lose comprehensively; not even to effective units, but to ragtag groups of smug IS pilots now enjoying better gear and that luxurious advantage of dropdeck tonnage you also gave them.

Insult to injury. Either sort this out, or we quit. Enough said.

Sincerely,

JW

Don't know what you are doing, but I knew my unit was playing FP just yesterday, and we had fairly even standings for matches. 1 W, 1 L and 1 Draw. And even the loss was a well played and fairly even game. (Funny enough, we played against the same people three times.)

Whatever you seem to be having an issue with... It's not what I'm noticing. And I even forgo 40 tons of my drop deck as I take nothing but mediums. Four 50 ton Huntsmen to be exact.

Joseph Ward, on 11 April 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

PS also, what is with letting our mechs now sustain damage inside dropships before even dropping into play? I just dropped into a CW brawl with 6% leg damage (a nice shade of orange) to an ACH. Incredible.

That's is a bug within the game. It cropped up about two patches ago, and numerious threads have been created about it. I'm sure someone has also contacted PGI/support about it, so I'm confident that PGI knows. Just a matter of getting to it and finding the problem...

[The_UltimoScorp]

Ah yes, what a crying shame it is that we now have to actually work for our invasion, rather than just blowing through mindlessly to Terra.

QQ

[Joseph Ward]

The Shortbus, on 11 April 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

One question, out of interest .

How is your dropdeck looking ?
Which mechs + which loadouts .

Hey Shortbus, I have multiple dropdecks tailored deliberately to different missions & environments. Usually one assault, one heavy and two lights. I don't want to elaborate too much on this in public - but happy to continue the conversation via private channels if you like.

[justcallme A S H]

Joseph Ward, on 11 April 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

Dear PGI,

Do you even watch the results of your patching?

Your incessant nerfing of Clan mechs & equipment has succeeded in making CW completely unplayable for us career loyalists.

9 out of 10 faction games we lose comprehensively; not even to effective units, but to ragtag groups of smug IS pilots now enjoying better gear and that luxurious advantage of dropdeck tonnage you also gave them.

Insult to injury. Either sort this out, or we quit. Enough said.

Sincerely,

JW


PS also, what is with letting our mechs now sustain damage inside dropships before even dropping into play? I just dropped into a CW brawl with 6% leg damage (a nice shade of orange) to an ACH. Incredible.

If Clan was losing 9/10 games, they would be losing territory hand over fist.

The fact that in the actual game, that is not happening, is proof what you are saying is wrong.

Last game I saw you in you didn't even crack 1,000dmg. It's probably more a piloting issue than anything. I have no issue in Clan mechs, they are still better than IS due to the IS XL.


And to the repeated silly ideas of 10 v 12 etc. No, this is a FPS, not a TT game.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 April 2017 - 11:15 PM.

[Joseph Ward]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 11 April 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

It's not the tech, buddy. It's the pilot.

I'm running wolf loyalist right now, 2 basic mechs in my deck and usually a bottle of gin involved too. Yet, i contribute usually more then the 2-4 lowest scored teammates together.

Hi Toha, I actually agree with you there - and like you I will often be in the top 2~3 scoring pilots on my side after an ale or three. Admittedly I am an experienced player now, just South of Tier 1 and working my way up. I do also notice IS players all racking up 1200~1500 evenly across all 3 lances quite frequently - meanwhile 75% of the Clan pilots are struggling to break 600 DMG with their 4 drops. A ragtag bunch of us played the reformed unit MS recently (12x MS pilots) and I KMDD'd 5, solo-killed 3 or four and did over 1200 DMG despite our comprehensive loss. Meanwhile scouting missions I think my PB is 811 damage and 4x solo kills.

My post is not a hollow gripe or unsubstantiated whinge - I have always found CW difficult, just lately it seems to have become impossible. The latest patch/Clan nerf brought about a step change in difficulty IMO.

Maybe it is now too frequently a case of matchmaking - perhaps the same green Clan pilots keep losing to the same veteran IS pilots. The question for PGI would be what are they doing to manage this? Why are ragtag groups of inexperiences Clan players going up against 6~8 players from KCom or Div0? IMO this should be stopped. Units should only be allowed to fight units. The audacity of IS units to win a skirmish 12 - 48, standing in our dropzone shooting at us before we even exit the DS is infuriating.

But even if matchmaking not tech was the culprit - the question would then be what is PGI doing about it?

For what it's worth - it probably should be 3 STARS v. 3 LANCES right now.

Or, give us our crit chances and dropdeck tonnage back. Stop the DWF being cut through the CT like butter by a single volley of IS LLasers. Make UACs jam < 10% of the time we double-tap. Bring the C ERLL duration back down because it's utterly ridiculous (difficult to do anything but splash damage with it at the range you pay for).. do I actually need to continue?

JW

[Joseph Ward]

justcallme A S H, on 11 April 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

If Clan was losing 9/10 games, they would be losing territory hand over fist.

The fact that in the actual game, that is not happening, is proof what you are saying is wrong.

Last game I saw you in you didn't even crack 1,000dmg. It's probably more a piloting issue than anything. I have no issue in Clan mechs, they are still better than IS due to the IS XL.


And to the repeated silly ideas of 10 v 12 etc. No, this is a FPS, not a TT game.

funny you say that. I did about 875 one game just yesterday and seem to recall you were there along with Zel Vickers et al. That low score wasn't helped by being killed by a cored CDA before my fresh TBR could even fire a shot on my last drop. Why and how could a cored CDA do this? I pumped 5x ERSLs into its chest at > 200m. No it's not the pilot. 875 was just a particuarly low point. Maybe I'll demonstrate that to you next time we meet.

[justcallme A S H]

You failed to explain how clan is taking territory if it's losing 9/10 games, you have to win more than you lose... To win territory.

No surprise there because what you are saying is just a flat out inaccurate representation of what is really happening.

Balance is still in favour of Clan with the IS XL and Clan ERPPC outranging everything else. That said balance is as good as it's been in 18 months.

Go and read some piloting technique threads, you could use the pointers contained within them.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 12 April 2017 - 01:38 AM.

[B0oN]

Joseph, when you say you´ve got multiple dropdecks, that is good and bad simultaneously .
Why ?

Good:
-Youve managed to get a stable of mechs you like
-Youve done some drops (hopefully) with all of them

Bad:
-No clue as to loadouts
-No clue as to loadouts
-Again no single clue containing any loadouts

I´ll just leave this as a pointer :

Look at what IS can do especially good .
Now look at what clan can do good .
Now despair a bit .
Just a tiny bit .
Hehehehe, sry
Now go and apply counters and see if they work .

Less indirect hint :
If you bring LRMs and ERLL´s you´ll have a hard time .

LRM´s are **** to play against IS poke mech ... or can you magically get locks out of thin air ? See, me neither

ERLL´s are okay-ish, but the WHOLE team needs to bring the same such weaponry, or at least the same range bracket, because your team will need to POKE as one to flood enemies with targets and still get your damage out .

Thats my 2 Shortbus cents, have fun spending them

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

clans have been overnerfed into **** cause pgi has no idea of what is doing


UACs and gauss must be restored and also need to shoot 3 erll at time.

This way finally it will be possible to devastate opponents with the power of the skill,


atm it is just a lurm fest for the happiness of the noobs.


Alternative to all of this is inner sphere LPL heat 8.5 and LRM damage 0.7

Edited by anonymous223, 12 April 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Has the OP looked at IS map? Someone has to lose but Clans are definitely winning more than losing. Also remember IS currently has a weight advantage of 25-tons due to Clans tend to have more vet/elite units + lack of tech parity, starting with isXL.

What I have seen when Clan pugs lose is the lack of aggression and/or communication/teamwork, and builds better made for single drop QP and not FP. And when you get a non-aggressive Clan drop that is like blood in the water, though it might take the IS side a little longer to setup their aggression during the drop.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 April 2017 - 05:58 AM.

[Grus]

anonymous223, on 12 April 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

clans have been overnerfed into **** cause pgi has no idea of what is doing


UACs and gauss must be restored and also need to shoot 3 erll at time.

This way finally it will be possible to devastate opponents with the power of the skill,


atm it is just a lurm fest for the happiness of the noobs.


Alternative to all of this is inner sphere LPL heat 8.5 and LRM damage 0.7

#learntousecover
OR bring ecm or Ams
If that's not your cup of tea then set up for poptarting. And when you land use W or S hacks to not me in the same spot you landed....