53 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 April 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

I highly doubt they will ever have the velocity they need, I doubt they will even have the speed of the AC10.

I get that they didn't have tracking in lore, but SRMs are supposed to have tracking in lore but don't here, so I'm pretty sure we can make an exception if give them some sort of tracking and just ensure they don't have any arc (or a very minor one) and be done with it.

What little they have said includes being unguided. But it wouldn't be the first time they went back on something. How much velocity do you think they'll need?

[Khobai]

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If they have low enough DPS, they can have high enough velocity

Not a brawling weapon

MRMs are a brawling weapon though

because outside brawling range their spread is gonna be so awful they wont be worth using.

and if they stream out slowly instead of all at once the only way youll be able to hit with all of them them accurately is at brawling ranges. Itll also make using other weapons with MRMs absolutely infuriating

theyre gonna be really really bad lol.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2017 - 04:16 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

MRMs are a brawling weapon though

because outside brawling range their spread is gonna be so awful they wont be worth using.

and if they stream out slowly instead of all at once the only way youll be able to hit with all of them them accurately is at brawling ranges. Itll also make using other weapons with MRMs absolutely infuriating

theyre gonna be really really bad lol.

I don't think it's going to be like LBX where the spread gets worse as it flies. I don't see why it would. They're unguided, but they can still fly straight. So it should hold pattern over a distance.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

MRMs are a brawling weapon though

They shouldn't what's the point in having 2 brawling missiles that directly compete?

[Khobai]

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They shouldn't what's the point in having 2 brawling missiles that directly compete?

um that was the whole point I was making. derp.

that if they stream out slowly they wont work as medium range missiles. they will only be useful at short ranges. the only way to make MRMs useful at medium range is if they all come out simultaneously. With ripple fire its basically just a way worse clan autocannon.

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don't think it's going to be like LBX where the spread gets worse as it flies. I don't see why it would. They're unguided, but they can still fly straight. So it should hold pattern over a distance.

if they stream out gradually theyll be nothing like LBX. theyll be spread because theyre streaming out of the launcher at different times. The only way youll be able to hit something with all the different streams of missiles is if its really close to you and slow moving. Itll be like an autistic autocannon.

the way they SHOULD work is like LBX, they should all launch out at the same time. the whole ripple fire concept is not going to work for MRMs, the weapon system will be dead on arrival if anything like that is implemented.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2017 - 05:47 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

um that was the whole point I was making. derp.

that if they stream out slowly they wont work as medium range missiles. they will only be useful at short ranges.

They can stream out quickly, they just can't be simultaneous
Cryengine can't handle that

[Khobai]

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They can stream out quickly, they just can't be simultaneous
Cryengine can't handle that

it can handle dual LRM20s fine. so why cant it handle it?

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

it can handle dual LRM20s fine. so why cant it handle it?

When there are too many projectiles simultaneously, sometimes some of them get "ghosted" out and do no damage. This is one of the reasons that SRMs used to suck really hard back in the day.

Cryengine is basically a glorified potato engine.

Edited by FupDup, 13 April 2017 - 05:53 PM.

[Khobai]

I havent had that problem for like 3 years

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

I havent had that problem for like 3 years

Good for you?

[Khobai]

you guys are making up problems that dont exist anymore

[Rakshasa]

Mole, on 13 April 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'm not sure. I am also wondering the same question about Rocket Launchers. Are they going to be a one-shot deal where you pull the trigger and it dumps all your ammo at once or are we going to be able to control our limited ammunition consumption by having the rockets fire in a staggered stream like a real life rocket pod? I tweeted Russ this question and he did not respond.

Rocket pods are one shot weapons. Fire once, then forget. They weigh very little for the damage, but if PGI go by the TT rules one salvo is your lot.

For the launch effect, MRM's are notoriously inaccurate. Their Artemis-equivalent, the Apollo FCS, removes their natural to-hit penalty instead of giving them a bonus in TT. A series of wide SRM-like bursts could work - one burst for every 10 MRM's fired, spread wide like an LBX round. One blow all at once might be too much for the 30 and 40 launchers, and a ripple launch Clan-style would probably take too long.

Edited by Rakshasa, 13 April 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[Necro Ash]

Question though:

If they fire in a cluster all at once, pointblank splat builds will drop SRM's for them.

I would rather see a stream like clan lrm's, taking about 1.2 / 1.0 / .8 / .6 for the 40/30/20/10. Straight fire, no lock needed, no Artemis (that would be later tech with the Apollo system), moving at about 800 (roughly ac10).

Not the most awesome mix of traits, but area denial, surprise on corners, saturation with boats / groups etc.

IMHO, would make them interesting variation, not the replacement to SRMS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 13 April 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

you guys are making up problems that dont exist anymore

Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean no one experiences it, that's quite a fallacy.

[Damocles]

1 trigger pull = 10 missile burst. Similar to LBX

MRM10=1 trigger
>
MRM40=4 triggers.

0.X second cooldown between triggers
X second cooldown after the whole pack is spent.

[J0anna]

I'd prefer them to come out as one blast and spread like an LBX. No tracking, since they are (up to) 40 missiles, each doing 1 damage, they should have reasonable cooldown, but higher heat. 4xMRM 40's in a stalker should one shot most mechs on the field, and remove most (if not all) armor on the rest, however the heat should cause immediate shutdown (or death if overridden) if you alpha.

[Khobai]

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Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean no one experiences it, that's quite a fallacy.

I think its more likely people are just missing with their missiles, cant accept that theyre bad, and need to blame game mechanics for why their missiles didnt hit.

Hit registration has not been a serious problem for a number of years now.

Quote

1 trigger pull = 10 missile burst. Similar to LBX

MRM10=1 trigger
>
MRM40=4 triggers.

0.X second cooldown between triggers
X second cooldown after the whole pack is spent.

Then whats the point of having an MRM40 when you can just use four MRM10s?

then you get 40 missiles coming out at the same time. Instead of 10 missiles in 4 waves.

And four MRM10s weighs the same as one MRM40. The only advantage is hardpoint compression but thats not enough of an advantage to take the MRM40.

All that does is making the bigger launchers useless.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2017 - 07:20 PM.

[Rakshasa]

Necro Ash, on 13 April 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

Question though:

If they fire in a cluster all at once, pointblank splat builds will drop SRM's for them.

I would rather see a stream like clan lrm's, taking about 1.2 / 1.0 / .8 / .6 for the 40/30/20/10. Straight fire, no lock needed, no Artemis (that would be later tech with the Apollo system), moving at about 800 (roughly ac10).

Not the most awesome mix of traits, but area denial, surprise on corners, saturation with boats / groups etc.

IMHO, would make them interesting variation, not the replacement to SRMS.

Good point. MRM's are unguided by default though - the Apollo just makes them a bit less potato-like on launch. Maybe a missile stream, but instead of straight-fire give it a cone AOE or maybe have the individual missiles spiral on launch like some real-world types do (if the Cryengine can handle it). MRM's are meant to be a general-use stopgap between brawler SRM's and fire support LRM's, but they lose a lot of accuracy for the privilege - getting all the missiles on target, never mind into a small number of locations, should be a challenge whatever happens.

Edited by Rakshasa, 13 April 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

If they fire in a cluster all at once, pointblank splat builds will drop SRM's for them.

Not if they have a longer cooldown. As long as an equivalent tonnage in SRMs does more DPS were fine.

[LordNothing]

i think streams would be significantly easier to aim than srm style volleys. shotgunning damage everywhere is just going to make it a bottom of the barrel weapon when it should be a next gen missile system. there still should be a little bit of spread to keep it balanced but not to the same level as an srm, think lbx.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 April 2017 - 07:24 PM.