19 replies to this topic

[MadHornet]

Which do you prefer?

- Spammed -

Pros:

- Disorientating the enemy through cockpit shake.

- Smaller launchers save a bit of tonnage for a little more speed or ammunition.

- Smaller launchers have somewhat less spread and thusly does not always need ARTEMIS.

Cons:

- More face time.

- Encourages you to stand at the best vantage points to do damage, disconnecting you from the team.

- Chain firing causes more spread due to travel time and target movement.



- Volley -

Pros:

- Does not need a lot of hard points to work with larger launchers.

- Full damage hits the target in a generally more narrow area.

- Encourages movement and opportunism, making successful hits with large volleys rather effective and with less exposure.

Cons:

- Usually takes up more tonnage, typically making it a heavy 'mech build (mediums like the trebuchet and kintaro variants that are not the KTO-18 can reasonably carry LRM-15's).

- Long range open engagements are easier for the enemy with less cockpit shake.

- Ammunition consumption.



Note: If LRM's make you angry, I don't care lol.

And a last tip, NEVER go without a few backup lasers unless you have no energy hard points. You never know when you may win in self-defense with a few medium lasers.

[Wintersdark]

Both. One key group fires, the other key chainfires.

Chainfire when the target is in the open and unable to get to cover - once he's getting close to cover group fire the last volley to maximize damage output.

Chainfire when the target is firing at friendlies for cockpit shake.

Groupfire when you know you've got a good shot that may not last.

Use the right tool for the right job at the right time.

From a clam perspective, you can do exceptionally well in QP by "LRM Brawling" - at 200m my Mad Dog is extremely effective chaining LRM5's and firing 5 ERSL's while outputting insane DPS. Substantial damage output, can fire over friendlies. Stick front and center with the brawlers, target mechs trying to brawl with them. It's glorious when you're up by an AS7 or KDK-SB, laying a constant volley of LRM's into their targets and using the lasers to tear off vulnerable sections while the assault lays down hammerblows. Against equal or greater numbers, the LRM stream can work quite effectively as crowd control.

Needs some fancy footwork, of course, as you need to maintain ~200m to ensure full LRM and ERSL damage and to manipulate the flight arc of the LRM's, but they're surprising effective short range weapons in that case.

Yeah, not an optimal build, but there's a reason it's my highest average damage/match score mech overall, and it's always used at close range (no hiding in the back and uselessly herfing lurms)

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Both. One key group fires, the other key chainfires.

Chainfire when the target is in the open and unable to get to cover - once he's getting close to cover group fire the last volley to maximize damage output.

Chainfire when the target is firing at friendlies for cockpit shake.

Groupfire when you know you've got a good shot that may not last.

Use the right tool for the right job at the right time.

From a clam perspective, you can do exceptionally well in QP by "LRM Brawling" - at 200m my Mad Dog is extremely effective chaining LRM5's and firing 5 ERSL's while outputting insane DPS. Substantial damage output, can fire over friendlies. Stick front and center with the brawlers, target mechs trying to brawl with them. It's glorious when you're up by an AS7 or KDK-SB, laying a constant volley of LRM's into their targets and using the lasers to tear off vulnerable sections while the assault lays down hammerblows. Against equal or greater numbers, the LRM stream can work quite effectively as crowd control.

Needs some fancy footwork, of course, as you need to maintain ~200m to ensure full LRM and ERSL damage and to manipulate the flight arc of the LRM's, but they're surprising effective short range weapons in that case.

Yeah, not an optimal build, but there's a reason it's my highest average damage/match score mech overall, and it's always used at close range (no hiding in the back and uselessly herfing lurms)

I have a personal disdain for LRM-5 boats as they can not defend themselves well (they usually sacrifice energy hardpoints for almost exclusively missile, also making it sometimes an impossible choice to add tag). Mechs with fewer missile hardpoints often have better quirks to make up for a slower firing rate, and have far more defense options. We should be honest here and say that if someone is attacking you at close range, it's too late to simply flee. Just shoot them and call for help while making your way to the nearest friendly.

You may mention clan 'mechs can do well armed LRM-5 boats, but the clan LRM's are not as good as IS when it comes to volleys, and are easier to counter with AMS.

Edited by MadHornet, 15 April 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[Skanderborg]

Launching big volleys seems the best to me , 90% of the time the lock you're shooting at is only good for 5 seconds , enough time to shoot one wave of missiles and have them hit.

[Wintersdark]

MadHornet, on 15 April 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I have a personal disdain for LRM-5 boats as they can not defend themselves well (they usually sacrifice energy hardpoints for almost exclusively missile, also making it sometimes an impossible choice to add tag). Mechs with fewer missile hardpoints often have better quirks to make up for a slower firing rate, and have far more defense options. We should be honest here and say that if someone is attacking you at close range, it's too late to simply flee. Just shoot them and call for help while making your way to the nearest friendly.

You may mention clan 'mechs can do well armed LRM-5 boats, but the clan LRM's are not as good as IS when it comes to volleys, and are easier to counter with AMS.

Well, I meant the Mad Dog specifically. MDD-PRIME 6LRM5+5ERSL. It has no problem defending itself up close; in fact, it's designed for up close combat. You don't choose ERSL or LRM, you use both.

If someone's faster than you, and can force very close combat (within 120m, where the LRM's become useless), then you're just firing lasers, but then you're still a 60t heavy dropping 25pt alphas every couple seconds, and heat neutral while doing it. That'll win basically any engagement with a light, doing comparable damage longer, and attempts for him to get space to cool down allow you to bring the LRM's back into play.

You've speed and agility to control engagement ranges, and can use partial cover extremely effectively while continuing to rain brawl-range LRM damage and distruption.

Between 160 - 220m you're pushing 16 dps that's very cool, and you've the option of backing off a bit and just firing the LRM's to actually cool down while still maintaining a healthy 8ish dps.


Edit: TAG? Who needs TAG? If you're fighting up close like intended, you've got a Active Probe module canceling ECM (and ECM ranges are gimpy now anyways), locks are easy to get/maintain. If you CAN'T get a lock, you've still got a pretty heavy ERSL battery able to push a substantial amount of fire till you clip off the ECM.

Skanderborg, on 15 April 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Launching big volleys seems the best to me , 90% of the time the lock you're shooting at is only good for 5 seconds , enough time to shoot one wave of missiles and have them hit.

At range, when they're not firing back at friendlies, yeah. Of course, you should always be getting your own locks, so you know how long your lock will be good for, so you can make that decision at run time.

It also depends on your loadout and capabilities. IS options are very different than clan options here, as Clan LRM's always stream fire so you lose some of the "big launcher" advantages. As well, Clan LRM's are light enough that you can still carry substantial other weaponry.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 April 2017 - 10:41 AM.

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Edit: TAG? Who needs TAG? If you're fighting up close like intended, you've got a Active Probe module canceling ECM (and ECM ranges are gimpy now anyways), locks are easy to get/maintain. If you CAN'T get a lock, you've still got a pretty heavy ERSL battery able to push a substantial amount of fire till you clip off the ECM.

Doesn't weigh much and allows you to target ECM or ECM'd 'mechs at good distances. If a light with ECM comes to engage you, you can target them within range and will be forced to engage as well, as you aren't just going to stand there and say "I countered his ECM so now I can just keep firing LRM's as he backstabs me". Who needs BAP? Probably pure scout 'mechs or light hunters. Hardly does a thing for you if you have LRM's.

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

You've speed and agility to control engagement ranges, and can use partial cover extremely effectively while continuing to rain

It hardly ever ends up this way.

Edited by MadHornet, 15 April 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[Wintersdark]

MadHornet, on 15 April 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Doesn't weigh much and allows you to target ECM or ECM'd 'mechs at good distances. If a light with ECM comes to engage you, you can target them within range and will be forced to engage as well, as you aren't just going to stand there and say "I countered his ECM so now I can just keep firing LRM's as he backstabs me". Who needs BAP? Probably pure scout 'mechs or light hunters. Hardly does a thing for you if you have LRM's.

Obviously, you don't stand firing LRM's as he backstabs you, you cut him apart. 5xERSL, heavy-class armor, great arm reach, you simply win one on one engagements with lights. You've equal firepower up close, your BAP allows you to hold a lock on him so when he inevitably moves to disengage (you've the same firepower, but way better cooling and armor) you can open up immediately with a massed LRM volley.

Quote

It hardly ever ends up this way.

Works out that way all the time if you keep an eye for usable terrain, given the very high mounted cockpit. Even just dips in the ground and gentle hillcrests work out pretty well



The point here is that you're not some "ranged support" mech with "backup weapons", it's a build designed around close quarters combat with your brawlers. Yeah, you CAN run the LRM's at long range, but sacrificing 20% of your energy firepower for TAG is a waste of time. ECM is fairly uncommon, good firing solutions at long range are extremely rare unless fighting potatos. Get close, and TAG is irrelevant because ECM doesn't work well to prevent close range locks. The BAP, however, ensures that the mere presence of an ECM enemy mech nearby doesn't shut down your LRM's. This is critical when engaging mechs at your ideal targeting range (160-220m).

TAG costs too much. Not worth taking your lasers from 25 to 20 damage and encouraging you to play worse by trying to keep more range. Also, of course, TAG use at range has the severe downside of requiring facetime and giving the opfor a handy line direct to your mech. AND, in this case, requires exposure of a lot of your mech vs. a tiny little bit of cockpit.


As well, used nice and close, you're firing at 16dps AND able to join the brawlers, but are able to add substantial firepower and disruption even if things are crowded and you can't get direct LOS for a moment.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 April 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Yep. That's one of the reasons why even good players have a hard time contributing with LRMs: they require a lot of time to work in a game where engagements are either sporadic or rapidly decisive. LRM boaters don't insta-vote for Polar just because it's very open with little/no overhead cover, but because the large no-man's-land zones drag out fights. On a map like HPG or Canyon Network they don't get solid locks and pitched battles tend to be close-range brawls with plenty of corners to duck behind.

It's like having laser variants with halved damage and doubled burn duration.

[SPencil]

Volley fire for inconsistent targets / indirect fire, spam fire for solid targets / direct fire. These two techniques will do optimal damage in their respective roles: spam damage will out-dps but over a longer period of time, volley damage is comparatively front-loaded.

Think that's it, really. We gonna start discussing LRM-centric builds now?


edit:

Alexander of Macedon, on 15 April 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

LRM boaters don't insta-vote for Polar just because it's very open with little/no overhead cover, but because the large no-man's-land zones drag out fights.

LRM carriers tend to carry the capability to do the most damage in almost any particular match (ignoring lasers for a second), their problem is it takes time to unload it all and accuracy has consistency issues. It takes 9.5 tons of LRM ammo to outdamage the dakka-Kodiak if both have 100% accuracy. In long matches, pure LRM builds can continue doing damage well after pure ballistic builds have ran out of ammo. LRM performance is volatile and varies greatly based on situation and context, ballistics are consistent and simpler to use.

Edited by SPencil, 15 April 2017 - 11:13 AM.

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

Obviously, you don't stand firing LRM's as he backstabs you, you cut him apart. 5xERSL, heavy-class armor, great arm reach, you simply win one on one engagements with lights. You've equal firepower up close, your BAP allows you to hold a lock on him so when he inevitably moves to disengage (you've the same firepower, but way better cooling and armor) you can open up immediately with a massed LRM volley.


Works out that way all the time if you keep an eye for usable terrain, given the very high mounted cockpit. Even just dips in the ground and gentle hillcrests work out pretty well



The point here is that you're not some "ranged support" mech with "backup weapons", it's a build designed around close quarters combat with your brawlers. Yeah, you CAN run the LRM's at long range, but sacrificing 20% of your energy firepower for TAG is a waste of time. ECM is fairly uncommon, good firing solutions at long range are extremely rare unless fighting potatos. Get close, and TAG is irrelevant because ECM doesn't work well to prevent close range locks. The BAP, however, ensures that the mere presence of an ECM enemy mech nearby doesn't shut down your LRM's. This is critical when engaging mechs at your ideal targeting range (160-220m).

TAG costs too much. Not worth taking your lasers from 25 to 20 damage and encouraging you to play worse by trying to keep more range. Also, of course, TAG use at range has the severe downside of requiring facetime and giving the opfor a handy line direct to your mech. AND, in this case, requires exposure of a lot of your mech vs. a tiny little bit of cockpit.


As well, used nice and close, you're firing at 16dps AND able to join the brawlers, but are able to add substantial firepower and disruption even if things are crowded and you can't get direct LOS for a moment.

ECM is not "uncommon", hardly the truth. I see at least 2 ECM units on each team in my matches, often covering other 'mechs during pushes. Most light players go for ECM equipped mechs as well.

I don't know about you, but in T1 pretty much all light players play lights because they know what they're doing or getting into. Not to say there are not some potatoes, but generally engagements with lights have me torso twisting while they fire within 180 meters. Once you have help arrive, they will flee and the ECM will be off your back ANYWAY.

The required facetime actually drops with tag when getting your own targets. It decreases lock on times and counters ECM. That way you can get the lock, fire a volley as you drop to cover, and then another behind cover. You do not stand and tag people, you obtain the lock quickly and fire a few times.

Edited by MadHornet, 15 April 2017 - 11:07 AM.

[Wintersdark]

All which is only relevant when you're fighting from range. I don't know about you, but I rarely encounter people who'll let me shell them with LRM's at range.

If you TAG to get a lock, fire, then duck into cover, you may well lose that lock before the missiles arrive. So you need to stay out longer. You're only getting the TAG bonuses for the duration of contact +1 second, so you need to keep tag on the target till the missiles are near. IS side, TAG range is so short you're only using it up close anyways.

I'm not saying TAG is bad, I'm saying it's expensive. You're giving up a substantial amount of non-LRM firepower in order to partially counter a problem inside a small range band. Yes, tag is small and light, but even on that Mad Dog, packing TAG costs a 20% reduction in firepower. That's gross. That's taking you closer to "a light has come, now you need assistance, or just to hope to dissuade them". At the full 5 ERSL, you're doing more damage, more often, to lights that do come. You're a very capable mech just using those weapons, let alone the LRM's.

This is one of the critical traps of LRM's, that take them from being sub-par to fairly bad. You start investing all these other hardpoints, tons, and slots into making them better in limited situations, when you could be spending those tons, hardpoints, and slots in increasing your firepower overall. Once you get inside 220m, ECM is utterly worthless and you can tear into people just fine with your LRM's, and backing that with 25pt laser alphas too!

"But you've got an active probe there!" Indeed I do. That AP is providing a bonus to all my weapons, as it greatly speeds target data - critical for short range engagements. Allows fast targeting and precise laser fire. Normally, it'd be a TC1, but as the TC1 only helps the lasers, and only marginally for the ERSL's, the AP is more useful overall than the ton of ammo it displaces.

---

The point of the thread, though, was chain vs. volley. With a build like this, engaging at brawling ranges, both are extremely effective. Groupfire when you're not going to get a good duration to fire reliably (typically short duration locks at long range), chainfire when you're closer and want to cause 100% disruption on your target. You get the benefits of both. Both are very valid options, and knowing when to choose which is critical.


Enemy has AMS, is moving to cover, etc? Groupfire. Enemy is firing at a friendly and you've a clear shot? Chainfire.

Even as a very experienced player, the disruption is critical. When you're being hit by a constant, uninterrupted stream of LRM's, you can't make accurate shots. Oh, if you're not potato-class, you'll still hit your target simply by firing center-mass in the targeting box, but now you're not taking off an exposed side torso. If the LRM'er is only groupfiring, or chaining 2 large launchers, they're not able to put up that blinding effect and disruption.

LRM5's group fire just as well as a pair of LRM15's, after all. Slight heat penalty, but it's very minor, and as you're group firing when you're not going to be able to maintain fire anyways, it's unimportant.

[Jman5]

Generally I just launch in volleys but there are times where you want to chain fire so it's good to have two weapon groups set up.


1. Avoid ghost heat
2. Keep the pressure on when you're at high heat
3. Target is practically dead
4. I'm uncertain if my missiles are being hard-blocked by terrain
5. I'm pretty sure I can't hit him, but I want to stress him out and scare him back into cover

[FuhNuGi]

Try this setup as an example...

LRM 50 Vulture, 2x LRM15, 2x LRM10, (3erml for backup)

Volley fire sends 50, reload cycle time is just slightly different, so when I hold for continued fire, the slight timing difference makes for a tight firing "dual volley".

I also have each side grouped... so I can make the rain fall almost continually.

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

If you TAG to get a lock, fire, then duck into cover, you may well lose that lock before the missiles arrive. So you need to stay out longer. You're only getting the TAG bonuses for the duration of contact +1 second, so you need to keep tag on the target till the missiles are near. IS side, TAG range is so short you're only using it up close anyways.

---

Target decay.

Tag range is not short. 750 meters is further than the ideal LRM firing range.

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

The point of the thread, though, was chain vs. volley. With a build like this, engaging at brawling ranges, both are extremely effective. Groupfire when you're not going to get a good duration to fire reliably (typically short duration locks at long range), chainfire when you're closer and want to cause 100% disruption on your target. You get the benefits of both. Both are very valid options, and knowing when to choose which is critical.


Enemy has AMS, is moving to cover, etc? Groupfire. Enemy is firing at a friendly and you've a clear shot? Chainfire.

Even as a very experienced player, the disruption is critical. When you're being hit by a constant, uninterrupted stream of LRM's, you can't make accurate shots. Oh, if you're not potato-class, you'll still hit your target simply by firing center-mass in the targeting box, but now you're not taking off an exposed side torso. If the LRM'er is only groupfiring, or chaining 2 large launchers, they're not able to put up that blinding effect and disruption.

LRM5's group fire just as well as a pair of LRM15's, after all. Slight heat penalty, but it's very minor, and as you're group firing when you're not going to be able to maintain fire anyways, it's unimportant.

The difference being, and what I was originally getting at, is 'mechs like the trebuchet don't have 5 + missile hard points, and often use larger launchers. The increased energy hard points along with more quirks make them ideal for doing concentrated damage, especially the TBT-3C. The spread on the LRM-15's with ARTEMIS is relatively small, giving it the punching power of an AC/20 in a single spot, give or take a few damage, and the rest hitting elsewhere. I've also been able to torso twist between volleys while maintaining the lock, firing every 3 seconds. On top of that, four medium lasers and 97 KPH. Very fast and well armed for an IS LRM support.


This scales with clan 'mechs as well. You could have something with less missile hard points, more LRM's, and greater defense options. Shaking the enemy around is not the supreme goal, it's damage.

[Wintersdark]

MadHornet, on 15 April 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

This scales with clan 'mechs as well. You could have something with less missile hard points, more LRM's, and greater defense options. Shaking the enemy around is not the supreme goal, it's damage.

Sure, but you're not getting less damage when shaking the target, you're getting more.

2xAcLRM15 = 7dps 6s 7t
3xAcLRM15 = 10.5dps 9s 10.5t
6xcLRM5 = 9dps 6s 6t

The LRM5's can group fire exactly like the LRM15's, so your volley fire is identical either way. But going to 5's (where possible, at least) allows strong chain fire options. After the spread changes, ALRM15 is more or less equal to LRM5.

So, yes, damage is the goal, but 5's are far more effective at damage per ton output. Now, I'm not speaking for IS LRM mechs, as the horrific DPT difference to IS LRM's makes them largely impossible to use paired with realistic energy weapons - sure, you can bring 4 ML's, but you can't really use the ML's and LRM's together due to heat concerns.

Clam OP as far as LRM usage, really, because you're not making an "LRM mech"; it's just a mech that also has LRM's. Sure, there's the stream fire making them more vulnerable to AMS, but then... How often do you see AMS? And even with the stream fire, running smaller launchers gets a shorter stream: 6xcLRM5 group firing lose less missiles than 2xcLRM15 do due to the 1/3rd length burst of missiles.

Clan side, if you can run more smaller launchers, it's virtually always better to do so as it almost never cuts into other weaponry.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 April 2017 - 01:44 PM.

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 15 April 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

Sure, but you're not getting less damage when shaking the target, you're getting more.

2xAcLRM15 = 7dps 6s 7t
3xAcLRM15 = 10.5dps 9s 10.5t
6xcLRM5 = 9dps 6s 6t

The LRM5's can group fire exactly like the LRM15's, so your volley fire is identical either way. But going to 5's (where possible, at least) allows strong chain fire options. After the spread changes, ALRM15 is more or less equal to LRM5.

So, yes, damage is the goal, but 5's are far more effective at damage per ton output. Now, I'm not speaking for IS LRM mechs, as the horrific DPT difference to IS LRM's makes them largely impossible to use paired with realistic energy weapons - sure, you can bring 4 ML's, but you can't really use the ML's and LRM's together due to heat concerns.

Clam OP as far as LRM usage, really, because you're not making an "LRM mech"; it's just a mech that also has LRM's. Sure, there's the stream fire making them more vulnerable to AMS, but then... How often do you see AMS? And even with the stream fire, running smaller launchers gets a shorter stream: 6xcLRM5 group firing lose less missiles than 2xcLRM15 do due to the 1/3rd length burst of missiles.

Clan side, if you can run more smaller launchers, it's virtually always better to do so as it almost never cuts into other weaponry.

"but you can't really use the ML's and LRM's together due to heat concerns. "

Then don't! Use the ML's against targets that get within minimum range or when your heat levels are lower and the target is less than 400m. And no, my 3C build actually has plenty of heat efficiency, you could alpha a few times.

"
Sure, but you're not getting less damage when shaking the target, you're getting more.

2xAcLRM15 = 7dps 6s 7t
3xAcLRM15 = 10.5dps 9s 10.5t
6xcLRM5 = 9dps 6s 6t"

And where is that damage going on a torso twisting target? Everywhere. I think you mean when it does volleys.

"How often do you see AMS?"

A lot actually. As I said, I don't know where you are in MWO but my matches see copious usage of AMS and ECM. LRM-5 boats often don't get to see much action against AMS. T1 has LRM's figured out, the last time I was killed by a LRM-5 stream was months ago. Everyone does volleys of LRM's or mixed clan builds now.

[LordNothing]

depends on situation. sustained fire is good in a situation where you have a good line of sight, a solid lock, and no ams. a single ams will destoy the effectiveness of cycled lrm5s. big salvos are good in situations where you have a short window in which to fire, they can also over saturate ams. and if there is any holes in the armor those sections tend to experience crits or fall off.

[Wintersdark]

LordNothing, on 15 April 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

depends on situation. sustained fire is good in a situation where you have a good line of sight, a solid lock, and no ams. a single ams will destoy the effectiveness of cycled lrm5s. big salvos are good in situations where you have a short window in which to fire, they can also over saturate ams. and if there is any holes in the armor those sections tend to experience crits or fall off.

This, exactly.

MadHornet, on 15 April 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

"but you can't really use the ML's and LRM's together due to heat concerns. "

Then don't! Use the ML's against targets that get within minimum range or when your heat levels are lower and the target is less than 400m. And no, my 3C build actually has plenty of heat efficiency, you could alpha a few times.

"
Sure, but you're not getting less damage when shaking the target, you're getting more.

2xAcLRM15 = 7dps 6s 7t
3xAcLRM15 = 10.5dps 9s 10.5t
6xcLRM5 = 9dps 6s 6t"

And where is that damage going on a torso twisting target? Everywhere. I think you mean when it does volleys.

Group fire at me, and all that damage is going to my arm/shield side/wherever I want it anyways. You can see LRM's coming from a long ways away and rotate to put the damage where you want.

Clan side, the larger the launchers, the longer the stream even when group fired, so even when fired as a group you focus damage more with smaller launchers.

Quote

"How often do you see AMS?"

A lot actually. As I said, I don't know where you are in MWO but my matches see copious usage of AMS and ECM. LRM-5 boats often don't get to see much action against AMS. T1 has LRM's figured out, the last time I was killed by a LRM-5 stream was months ago. Everyone does volleys of LRM's or mixed clan builds now.

LRM5 boats, Clan side, are more effective vs. AMS than LRM15 boats. The point is that those multi-LRM5 builds don't have to chainfire, and my whole point in this thread is the LRM5 build gives you choice. You choose, at every trigger pull, whether it's appropriate to chainfire or group fire. When you've just got a couple big launchers, you lose the choice. If you don't have that choice, then you cannot capitalize on the times where chainfiring them is flatly superior, and there are lots of those times.

But even if you NEVER chainfire them, LRM5's are still superior weapons when you have the hardpoints to use them. You're simply getting higher DPS output from less tonnage and slots.

Further, what "everyone" does is of no concern to me. Particularly regarding LRM's, what "everyone" does is rarely optimal, because people who optimize don't often run LRM's in the first place for fairly obvious reasons.

---

For most mechs, running lots of small launchers isn't an option due to lack of hardpoints. As such, running more, smaller launchers isn't an option for those builds. That doesn't make fewer, larger launchers a better build, it's just the only option for that mech then.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 April 2017 - 06:03 PM.

[JediPanther]

I like to lrm volley at 600m or less. It's fun to watch how a mech pilot reacts to a sheet ton of missiles impacting at once. You need is lrms to do it right as clan lrms fire in that weird stream and if the enemy has any ams you'll going to lose quite a few lrms to it. Of course it's particularly enjoyable to watch a light mech just disappear and a creator be the only thing left. Every thing else just takes a lot of damage or opened armor just goes bye bye.

[N0ni]

As someone who never uses any lock-on weaponry, i'd have to say both spam and volley should be used... switching between the two given the current situation.

I have to disagree with spam "disconnecting you from the team" as for both you should be with your team at all times. You can still do the same amount of damage as much as you would have if you stayed in one advantageous location, while moving with the team.

I don't use LRMs myself, but i used to regularly drop with someone who does. And he makes LRMs look like an art form (thoroughly enjoy the mid-air pirouette LRM'ing), mostly because he plays WITH the team and not just randomly throwing missiles.

(Shoutout to Siegegun, you wizard <3)