32 replies to this topic

[SQW]

Bluttrunken, on 19 April 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

How about finally allowing respawns so that sensible objective play is possible?

Or just ditch it completely and make the game skirmish only?

Either way I'd be happier than now.

I play the objective fine without respawn. Respawn just encourages sloppy play at best and at worst, one-sided stomps. If their 12 mechs can kill your 12 mechs easily, their 24 mechs will kill your 24 mechs just as easily.

Incursion is easily the best objective oriented mode so far. If you don't play the objectives (battery, support, base kill) and just focus on winning via skirmish, a smarter team will easily beat you through other win conditions. The last 4 wins on my incursion were all done despite losing the skirmish and the only loss came from losing base after up 6-11 on kills.

[Khobai]

Quote

I play the objective fine without respawn. Respawn just encourages sloppy play at best

not really. faction play has respawns and it doesnt encourage sloppy play at all. granted faction play has some tremendous flaws but sloppy playing isnt one of them.

Quote

If their 12 mechs can kill your 12 mechs easily, their 24 mechs will kill your 24 mechs just as easily.

except you can still win on objective even if the other team is ahead in kills. like in conquest, if your team devotes lights to capping and the other team doesnt, you often fall behind in kills but end up winning anyway due to caps.

so what youre saying isnt true at all.

with respawns your ability to win by objective is increased

Quote

Incursion is easily the best objective oriented mode so far

no that would be conquest. conquest is the only decent gamemode where people actually win by objective some of the time instead of just being skirmish all of the time.

the problem with incursion is that its too easy to win just by killing the enemy team. its the path of least resistance to end the game and get into the next game with the maximum amount of profits. it literally is just a bad variation of skirmish.

to fix incursion they need to do one of two things: 1) make completing the objectives crucial to winning the skirmish or 2) add respawns to make the objectives more important than the skirmish. those are the only two ways to fix it.

Edited by Khobai, 19 April 2017 - 06:29 AM.

[Necro Ash]

For PSR / Match Score they need to multiply everything by 5 except damage. Might bring everything else to a more important level, and not just "Kill em all" being the only logical tactic on *every* QP map.

[Old-dirty B]

Lets not make it even worse by dragging respawns into this... spawn killing and so on... awh gawd, lets avoid all that none sense.

Why should we care about objectives in the first place? Im here to stomp robots, nothing more - nothing less. When i kick one out of the game that should be significant... not encourage dumb play by allowing people to rush straight back into the game. FP already shows how "great" a respawning mode could be..

[Bluttrunken]

Without respawns it will always be easier to take the single life of the enemy team, no matter how well thought out the game mode is. Assault, Incursion and Conquest would all be better with infinite(yep) respawns. You would have to play on objective then and it would change the whole feel of the game mode. In a good way, imo. I like Incursion(in theory).

Domination should have several spawns and count the time the circle is captured by opposing teams(Dunno if that would be much better than what we have not, but still an improvement imo). Skirmish should stay Skirmish.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 19 April 2017 - 11:13 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Bluttrunken, on 19 April 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Without respawns it will always be easier to take the single life of the enemy team, no matter how well thought out the game mode is. Assault, Incursion and Conquest would all be better with infinite(yep) respawns. You would have to play on objective then and it would change the whole feel of the game mode. In a good way, imo. I like Incursion(in theory).

Domination should have several spawns and count the time the circle is captured by opposing teams(Dunno if that would be much better than what we have not, but still an improvement imo). Skirmish should stay Skirmish.

I think Conquest could pull double duty as both a no respawn mode and a respawn one for slightly different flavors . Also for diversity a mode like assault could have limited respawns where something like incursion could be unlimited. No matter what is done, if respawns get added they need to be well thought out to avoid spawn camping/farming. Things like the armed dropships help but careful map design, multiple selectable locations and such are also super important, else we can end up with some very unwanted ragequit inducing situations. Additionally/related rewards and scoring would need to be overhauled to avoid abuse.

Yes I'm aware this is a pipe dream and too much work for pgi to actually consider.

[Bluttrunken]

For modes with infinite respawns the rewards for damage and kills should be completely dropped and rewards should only be given for objective based play besides a flat win/lose reward. No one would need to bother with spawn camping because it wouldn't give additional rewards and would be a waste of time for everyone involved.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 19 April 2017 - 11:40 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Chrome Magnus, on 18 April 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

Going to bet this thread and most complaints came after just one or two rounds of incursion...

On my first round one of our assaults marched into the enemy base and killed it before they could react.

On my second, I captured and used two power cells, killed 2 generators, 3 mobile bases, 3 turrets, and two 'mechs in a Locust. I had the third-lowest score on my team, and most of them died in the first five minutes. Incursion is literally pointless, it's like Assault except the NASCAR into base destruction can't be stopped if you commit to it. Just another Skirmish with extra icons on the map.

It's been transparently obvious for a long damn time that objective game modes need to reward PTFOing more than killing, but they don't, and the objectives continue to be pointless distractions. You can make more CB and exp in one minute shooting enemies than you can if you spend the whole match running around taking Conquest points.

[darqsyde]

They could shorten the timer to, say, 8 minutes or so. Put everybody under pressure. No need to mess with respawns.

[roekenny]

I find it doesn't even pay well meta wise to do the objective. Since takes a locusts about a min round trip from node to base and for what to do pitiful dps to their defenders who can just hide (in which case their men down at the front so PUSH!!!), a global uav what your lights would be doing anyway if not messing around with nodes and jamming what only good to block lrms what a ac 20 to the face don't fix. Lights would do better to either bum rush their base as if entire lance alpha strikes a obj it goes down in no time. That or just do what they do in skirmish but have a wider field of view to stop their lights bum rushing your base.

Bedsides with the lights doing the objectives who will do all the heavy lifting taking all the fire and getting the enemy soft enough for the heavies to take all the credit?

[Xetelian]

Radar is ok to spy where they are coming from but that's about it.
Jamming stops locks for a time but only really hurts LRM mechs.
Air support is pointless unless they're camping their base.

So objectives that are only kind of useful, no real reward for doing them and a game mode that forces you to trek to the enemy base to deal just enough damage to be more than what they did to your base. Minutes of my life wasted.

[Khobai]

it should be radar tower, longtom/barrage tower, and a repair/respawn tower.

radar tower- same as now, its okay

longtom/barrage tower- drops an arty on the largest concentration of enemy mechs, punishes deathballing

repair/respawn tower- either repairs the armor (but not internals) of the mech that drops off the power pellet, or respawns a dead mech.

then the towers could actually have an effect on the outcome of the skirmish.

Edited by Khobai, 19 April 2017 - 11:43 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Inadequate rewards for playing the way a gamemode is supposed to be played? ... Who would have thought that could be a thing after 5 years of conquest and assault?