549 replies to this topic

[Baba_Yaga]

Just saying, if you don't like what is going on, let them know with your wallet! I did! Pre pack cancelled!

[Tekamen]

Gazes longingly at pile of modules purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in excess of 1.4 billion c-bills on live server. Looks at massive pool of 33,500 GSP on test server. Proceeds to unlock and master all mechs with HSP (historic skill points) on test server. Looks again at pile of 33,500 GSP and wonders how they could ever be used. Proceeds to remove every module purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in preparation to sell at 50% loss and recoup 700 million c-bills on live server, before test server goes live. Deeply saddened by loss of time in playing matches to acquire c-bills to purchase modules in game.

I want a straight 100% c-bill refund for all modules purchased in game regardless of what day they were purchased on. Modules purchased represent time played acquiring them. I see value in c-bills and being able to use them for new mechs, new XL engines, and to purchase nodes in the new skill tree system. I don't see value in GSP because it limits my options on how and when I choose to spend c-bills that I acquired through extensive playtime in MWO.

[MovinTarget]

metallio, on 26 April 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

I think the refund system is almost fixed. Sounds like letting us sell GSP for Cbills is a workable fix for the people who have few mechs and many modules, or let people select how much cash vs GSP they want when they first log in...or something similar.

Make them GSP initially and then make them available under inventory to sell (perhaps in some multiple so you aren't trying to sell 1000 single GSP at a time)...

This give you the ability to use them as GSP, a unique and potentially useful commodity (insta-level new mechs), but if you happen to be space poor, you can make the choice to cash some of them in...

[Ghardyne Dynamics]

Nutta88, on 26 April 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

You might want to check again... as you should get 91 SP per mastered mech. So can re "master" all of your mechs... It is a bit weird in the UI, as you need to allocate the SP to the mech.

I checked and I do not have any SP. Maybe it´s bugged.

[Crockdaddy]

Uh TL DR? Let me know when the min / max guys have this crap figured out.

[WarHippy]

Bud Crue, on 25 April 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Deafening? If the nerfing of nearly every mech I own goes forward past the PTS and goes live my outrage won't be deafening. Merely totally and completely silent.

I've spent my "outrage" trying to explain to PGI that nerffing already bad mechs will NOT encourage balance or improve player choice as they have asserted as two of their skills tree goals to be, but rather that this will do the opposite and guarantee that more than half tbe mechs in this game will be turned to crap. And yet that is what they appear to be set on doing.

Deathlike, on 25 April 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

All Clan mechs that didn't have any real quirks in the first place are getting an indirect buff. Something like the Summoner or Mist Lynx or even Vindicator that is heavily quirked previously chances are will get screwed over.

Bud Crue, on 25 April 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Yes. That is what appears obvious and apparent to you and I and several others. How is it that PGI is oblivious to such mathematical certainty? How can they be unaware that they are trashing their own balance efforts of the last two years? If they aren't oblivious and this is part of some well thought out plan, I'll be damned if I can even hypothesize as to what that plan might be.

Yeah, I really don't understand their reasoning on this. The quirks really need to stay at least for the time being. Maybe they are trying to set some sort of baseline so they can balance from there, but it would make so much more sense if the baseline they used was with the current "balance" with quirks included. I really don't understand how removing so many of the quirks and adding uniform skill trees across all mechs is going to provide anything useful for anyone be it data or simply game play enjoyment.

[process]

Ghardyne Dynamics, on 26 April 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

I checked and I do not have any SP. Maybe it´s bugged.

When you first fire up the PTS, you do not have any SP. It's all stored as either GSP or HSP, which you then need to convert to SP for each individual mech in the skill tree menu.

[Crockdaddy]

Tekamen, on 26 April 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Gazes longingly at pile of modules purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in excess of 1.4 billion c-bills on live server. Looks at massive pool of 33,500 GSP on test server. Proceeds to unlock and master all mechs with HSP (historic skill points) on test server. Looks again at pile of 33,500 GSP and wonders how they could ever be used. Proceeds to remove every module purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in preparation to sell at 50% loss and recoup 700 million c-bills on live server, before test server goes live. Deeply saddened by loss of time in playing matches to acquire c-bills to purchase modules in game.

I want a straight 100% c-bill refund for all modules purchased in game regardless of what day they were purchased on. Modules purchased represent time played acquiring them. I see value in c-bills and being able to use them for new mechs, new XL engines, and to purchase nodes in the new skill tree system. I don't see value in GSP because it limits my options on how and when I choose to spend c-bills that I acquired through extensive playtime in MWO.

So ... yeah. I may have close to 360 modules.

[Dee Eight]

mad kat, on 26 April 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Seeing as i couldn't make heads or tails of the PGI post i only want to know one thing.

Are we getting a cbill refund to bring our already mastered mechs back to their current level with the new system Or do we still have to front the Cbill cost from somewhere.

Anything already skilled, and every copy of that variant gets you historical skill points equal to the level you skilled it on the live servers. All basic skills = 23 points, mastered =91... elite I think is 54. If you own FIVE different Cheetah-Primes, all built with different weapons... and all mastered...you'll get 459 historical skill points, enough to insta-master all of them. If you sell one of them before using the historical skill points.... they'll still be there in your pool to unlock other nodes on the other ones you kept, if you tinker between builds... with only the 400XP/GXP re-spec cost per node to deal with ever.

In other words...if there's a particular mech variant you already own multiple versions of....buy more of them...before the patch day... and stuff your HSP pool for it, if you have the cbills available. Historical SP convert directly to skill points at zero cbills/xp cost.

[justcallme A S H]

process, on 26 April 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

And GSP is equivalent to 45,000 cbills + 800 XP. So you are being compensated for cbills, except it's more like monopoly money since you can only spend it on buying skill nodes.

This is the real issue...

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

I have 103 mechs right now, started playing 18months ago.

1. All but ~10 mechs are mastered with oodles of spare mech XP (thus, loads of HSP per mech). So they are all instantly covered and then, lots more.

2. Enough left over HSP to skill a further 198 mechs outright.

3. I will need to purchase another, 180 odd mechs, to make use of that HSP via instant mastery.


LOL. OK PGI, funny joke. Now gimme back the cbills plz.

Oh and god help any new player coming into the game. These screens are so crap/convoluted it's just ridiculous. Surely there is a simpler was to do this rather than 3 slider bars, stupid HXP transfer box etc etc.

Just dump GXP, HXP & HSP into one pool of HSP, stupid transfer windows half gone.

Now if one GSP is worth 45,000 cbills, given how many modules I have purchased, I've grinded hard - real hard. I do not need 3 years of GSP "banked". What a load of crap. Because I chose to get modules rather than mechs, I get stuck with something essentially unusable?

I should be getting back: 11,720,00,000 c-bills for the modules.

If PGI were smart, they would realise this is a massive cash generator. Why?

MC / Mechbays. I can now go out and buy 20-30 new shiny toys. I need MC and Mechbays to do this, as I'm sure many are in the same position.


So PGI - Monetarily, business revenue point of view - it makes MUCH more sense to refund the modules, all of them. Not GSP them.

Hopefully money talks and smarts prevails.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 April 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[AlexDeath]

same shiit.
You didn't do anything from the last PTS. Same chaotic skill madness, witout sense. Third of 91 nodes is absolutely useless in any build i do. But some necessary skills i need can't be reached without taking a lot of unwanted skills.

Sory for my bad english, but this Skill tree is the worst thing you can offer.

Edited by AlexDeath, 26 April 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[Ghardyne Dynamics]

process, on 26 April 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

When you first fire up the PTS, you do not have any SP. It's all stored as either GSP or HSP, which you then need to convert to SP for each individual mech in the skill tree menu.

Edith says: Finaly found the HSP.... I think they need to work on the UI. Still not a fan of the whole system, especially the "necessary" skills you have to take because **** you, that´s why.

Edited by Ghardyne Dynamics, 26 April 2017 - 08:02 AM.

[SFC174]

process, on 25 April 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

LFEs, as far as we can guess, will offer across-the-board benefits for IS chassis. However, they won't help chassis with low engine caps or omnis with small locked engines.

PGI's initial implementation of the decoupling may be heavy-handed, but I believe the intent is good, namely, ensuring some consistency in agility based on weight class. I think the skill tree could offer the trade-off you mention, but that won't help individual chassis that are currently underperforming or overperforming.

My position is the concept is sound, even if it takes a few iterations to get it right.

I don't know that we _want_ consistency in mobility within weight classes. The value of different mobility quirks for different mechs is that you have variety. You have a reason for choosing different mechs. That's part of the whole argument for quirks.

TL:DR - On weaker/non-meta mechs the PTS builds require you to give up many current advantages in return for a bunch of stuff you would never have even considered on your mech before (hill climb, gyros, etc). Rather than increased specialization, you are forced to spread your improvements across a wide range of skill nodes that you'd rather not have. This makes mechs that had a niche because of a particular strength less useful/playable/enjoyable.

I spent some time last night on the PTS (very hard to get matches, so I spent a lot of time playing around in testing grounds) and spec'd/respec'd some of my favorite mechs that are heavily quirked now and will be losing those quirks. For example, I tested my ARC-5W. Right now it has some pretty heavy duty accel/decel/turn quirks, 50%+ in all those categories. I use SRM4s which is a fun build to play even if its not meta. The mobility quirks really help the mech in close quarters, even allowing it to turn effectively enough to put shots on all but the fastest lights and also avoid enemy fire to protect those crappy ARC hitboxes.

After fully spec'ing the mech out (all the missile nodes I could afford, a lot of mobility quirks, and then some durability and info stuff) I really found the mech to underperform vs. a currently mastered mech with SRM4 range and cooldown modules (along with seismic and radar derp). The areas where I gained (more armor and internal structure, on the order of 6-8%), magazine capacity (+20%), range (about 2% more than with a range module) and spread were more than offset by a loss of speed (a few kph), mobility (turn rate, accel and decel way down - felt sluggish), seismic reduction, radar derp reduction and cooldown reduction (I think I was at 6% cooldown vs. 17% on live with module and mastery). TBH, the spread and crit chances really didn't feel like they helped at all.

Don't get me wrong, I did gain other stuff (hill climb, gyros, fall damage reduction, etc.) in lieu of my lost quirks, but that stuff doesn't offset what I lost when it comes to combat ability. What PGI has done is taken a mech that was mediocre at best, but fun to play, and made it feel like its gonna be more of a chore to play now. So its not meta, not as much fun - why play it?

I'm currently messing around with more meta builds (mainly clan) that didn't have quirks before. Initial impressions on my MAD-IIC is that the mobility changes don't feel nice, but the firepower and durability buffs are substantial. This does not bode well for inner sphere mechs that are heavily quirked right now.

[justcallme A S H]

And here is something that I've not seen many mention yet either.

If you love tinkering in the mechbay, play various modes of the game and change builds a lot.

Good luck with that.

justcallme A S H, on 25 April 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

This is one of my biggest concerns and something not one person form PGI have commented on right there. I refit / tinker mechs constantly for:

Comp / Faction Play / Quick Play Group / Quick Play Solo

Right now it takes me 90 seconds tops and no cost (I have lots of inventory, modules spare etc) to refit mechs for whatever is going on, module up and off I go.
This new system I have to totally reskill each bloody time as well as refit it? Or my team in Comp wants to use slightly different attributes, again 10mins reskilling just to see if something works? You have got to be kidding me. What the hell?

I'm gonna need to purchase, potentially, 3-4 of each decent farken variant if I want to save myself HOURS in the Mechlab reskilling each time I want to do something different.

If you, PGI, are going to make my life a mechbay misery - I WANT MY FARKEN CBILLS BACK

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 April 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[Davy J0nes]

None meta mechs getting a huge hit while meta mechs will now out class them even more.

But hopefully when this becomes evident the under performing mechs will be looked at again.

....and wont have to wait to long dun dun.

[pacifica812]

I JUST WANNA PLAY WITH BIG STOMPY ROBOTS!!!


Mechwarrior Online!!
Not CLICKWARRIOR ONLINE!!


Pleeeeeaaaaaassseeeee!!!!!

Pretty please with all the sweetness on top...

My time is limited, I do like to play in the mechlab, but I don't want to over-commit my precious time on "noodeling away".

Is there REALLY no way to make this behemoth of a skill tree simpler????????

[ThiefofAlways]

Full cash refund please and forget the cougar/madcat iic I was going to buy. You have changed things beyond what I spent real money for. I purchased my mechs knowing they would be set with this or that quirk and you took that away. I spent money for what it did at that time.

[GenJack]

Looks interesting! Can't wait to test it when I get home!

[Steve Pryde]

Sorry but the skill tree is just a mess. I looked into it for 10 minutes and gave up. What did change after the last pts? When I think I have to skill trough hundrets of mechs then i don't want really log into the game. Trying to build my mech in the mechlab is ok and fun and a part of Mechwarrior but not this mess.

[Wolfengel]

what shoud that, In the last skilltreetest you had a tree which was useful and now you start again from the beginning?

I hope this is a joke. What should, then there is no other clan Hero Mechs.