29 replies to this topic

[El Rizzo]

Quote

If PGI want specialization they need to have firepower broken into 3 groups, Missiles, ballistics, and energy.

Then you favor boating though, because a mech only running one weapon type gets all the benefits by taking only one tree while a mixed build is forced to take and invest more points, thus leaving him with less points to invest in other areas.

The generalized approach to weapon quirks is actually one of the few positive improvements they made over the initial version, they simply need to entangle this messy skill "web" by reducing the amount of nodes to 1/4 or at least 1/3 and increasing the node values accordingly. Additionaly they need to make the individual skill nodes linear so they can be accessed without filler nodes, but with increasing costs for each node after the first to keep the cost about the same as it was before. That way the tree would look MUCH sleeker and more accessible while retaining the "hard choices" PGI wants us to make.

[Wintersdark]

Ruar, on 26 April 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

So I'm NOT supposed to be able to customize my mech, but instead only take the dev approved options and cookie cutter like everyone else.

Got it.

You do customize it. You CAN maximize things like cooldown and such, but doing so on a single-weapon build costs "extra" (skill points used in otherwise unusable nodes).

This is built in balancing for the fact that single weapon type builds have an inherent bonus in weapon synergy.

You have no more or less customization options this way. There will ALWAYS be "optimal" skill builds, what those are changes but they'll always exist.



This is just adding diminishing returns on skill points for builds with inherent advantages... It's a minor counter to extreme minmaxing. Keep in mind, you can still use those skill points at full efficiency elsewhere.

El Rizzo, on 27 April 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

Then you favor boating though, because a mech only running one weapon type gets all the benefits by taking only one tree while a mixed build is forced to take and invest more points, thus leaving him with less points to invest in other areas.

The generalized approach to weapon quirks is actually one of the few positive improvements they made over the initial version, they simply need to entangle this messy skill "web" by reducing the amount of nodes to 1/4 or at least 1/3 and increasing the node values accordingly. Additionaly they need to make the individual skill nodes linear so they can be accessed without filler nodes, but with increasing costs for each node after the first to keep the cost about the same as it was before. That way the tree would look MUCH sleeker and more accessible while retaining the "hard choices" PGI wants us to make.

This. With multiple weapon skill trees - we tested that - mixed builds are severely disadvantaged vs. boated builds, and mixed builds are typically already weaker than boated builds before skills are considered at all.

Edited by Wintersdark, 27 April 2017 - 10:53 AM.

[Thrull]

What do you do when a Chassis has all missile or all energy? There are plenty of examples. Boating is a usually given in all builds which has the HP for it no matter what PGI wants. How many Med er or pulses do clan builds usually have? How about when a mech has only 2 weapon types say missile/energy why would ballistic even need to be there, or paid for?
Personally I hate having to rely on one weapon system or system type, however I am restricted due to the configuration PGI makes on the mechs and their hardpoints. All I would like is for specialization to make sense and not having to pick up a node with absolutely no bearing on my chassis.
Heck if they were that worried about boating restrict all mechs to a maximum of 2 of any type of weapon system and it would solve the "boating" Problem. I could live with it.

[Mycroft000]

That would then anger people who enjoy the Lore of the game(me for one) my Nova comes with 12ERML stock, but since we as players insist on customizability, I get to change that to 12 ERSL.

The way to encourage mixed builds without removing capabilities given by the inherent flavor and gameplay involved in this game is to eliminate the Firepower tree entirely(or at least reduce it to generic skills: Heat, Range, Cooldown). You could even include skills like "Reduced Spread" which would reduce not only missiles, but LBX, and even reduce the amount of splash damage PPCs do. "Increased Velocity" would apply to all non laser weapons.

[Thrull]

Don't take I would be good with that as I would prefer that. I spend far more time customizing chassis then out in the field. I've always loved that about Mechwarrior/Battletech series.

The firepower suggestion you proposed mycroft actually wouldn't be that bad. All of it is still a kick in the pants by removing so much and giving so little back. at this point I'd say leave it alone. But dev's gonna do what devs gonna do. All I can do is roll with the punches to my builds...and rework em again.

[Mycroft000]

Yeah, I have posted what I think is going to be more or less the optimal 87 nodes to use on the majority of mechs(LRM boats excluded).

[Lightfoot]

Just in briefly looking at the Nodes, I have to agree. I have been playing MechWarrior since 98 and it looks very confounding. Not confusing as much as a lot of wasted nodes and circuitous node pathing. Needs to be more like a tree with branches.

Also after skilling up my completely mastered Black Widow I can't figure out how the new XP system is working. I gave the Black Widow all it's historic XP because I only own one. Then I go to my completely mastered Bushwhacker and it has very little Historic XP.

Also Target Info Gathering should be in Miscellaneous. No one in their right mind would ever use this in the old Skill Module system because it serves no necessary purpose. You just carry BAP. If it can't go in Miscellaneous, delete it.

[Ruar]

Lightfoot, on 27 April 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

Just in briefly looking at the Nodes, I have to agree. I have been playing MechWarrior since 98 and it looks very confounding. Not confusing as much as a lot of wasted nodes and circuitous node pathing. Needs to be more like a tree with branches.

Also after skilling up my completely mastered Black Widow I can't figure out how the new XP system is working. I gave the Black Widow all it's historic XP because I only own one. Then I go to my completely mastered Bushwhacker and it has very little Historic XP.

Also Target Info Gathering should be in Miscellaneous. No one in their right mind would ever use this in the old Skill Module system because it serves no necessary purpose. You just carry BAP. If it can't go in Miscellaneous, delete it.

How long have you had the bushwacker mastered? The test build was from earlier in the month, last patch I think actually, so if it was recent it wouldn't show up.

[Lightfoot]

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

How long have you had the bushwacker mastered? The test build was from earlier in the month, last patch I think actually, so if it was recent it wouldn't show up.

It's been mastered and used often since it came out

[Ruar]

Lightfoot, on 27 April 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

It's been mastered and used often since it came out

Historic XP, not historic SP. The XP comes from how much exp you currently have banked for that mech. The HSP is what you get for having the mech mastered. You should have 91 HSP on both and then the amount of HXP will vary based on which one has more exp on live. I misread it the first time around, sorry.

Edited by Ruar, 27 April 2017 - 01:14 PM.