15 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

how do you see the JJ Tree?

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 April 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Changed as to allow people to post, didnt realize i made it Poll only Topic,

[G4LV4TR0N]

I don't play on PTS but I'd like to ask how do people see JJ's on Heavy/Assault mechs now(Night Gyr, Executioner).

[Mike Barnes]

I felt like the JJ tree was almost a bit too much on lighter 'mechs, and not enough on heavier 'mechs. The two I really played with were a victor and a phoenix hawk. I did full input into the tree for both and a lot of what follows are just my gut reactions rather than any kind of empiricism. The phoenix hawk felt like it went from nice and jumpy to some sort of half aerospace fighter, the jumping distances speed and turn rates were just ridiculous, meanwhile I felt like the victor was still sluggish and vulnerable while jumping. I get that this is a comparison between a lighter end medium and an assault 'mech that weighs nearly twice as much, I feel like the victor is a mech that lives or dies by its maneuverability and the JJ increase just wasn't enough. My thoughts on a change for it:
Have weight scaling similar to the survivability tree just reversed so assaults get more benefit, if we leave 45 tonners where they are, and decrease the effectiveness as you get lighter down to about 80% of where it is now at 20 tons, and increase the effectiveness as you go up to about 50% at 100 tons I think that might go a long way towards giving jump capable heavy and assault 'mechs some interesting choices while also not giving the lights the ability to jump over half the map..
and/or
Have a node or two at the bottom that allows you to strap more jets onto a mech I think that would really give the big dogs with jets a nice little boost, and would also give them an interesting niche against lights with the engine desync. I also see this as being something done to give pilots more loadout options for their playstyle.

[Reno Blade]

I feel the forward thrust to be quite useless.
It's only working from the liftoff, so if you bump into a wall, there is no more forwar thrust.
I won't take these points at all.

The longer burn time + faster lift speed is quite good.
The lower heat is OK, but could be a bit better, but I will still take it for my PHawks.

[Chuck B]

I need to test it more before I vote but I was able to reach the to of the high rise in f4 in frozen citywith the Heavy metal , took 3 jumps to get to the top, There does seem to be a bug with forward trust if you bump into a wall.

[Andi Nagasia]

i still dont see
personally i feel the JJ boost should be static not Percent based,
if you have +3m instead of +3%, then each mech will act as if they had 2.5 more JJ,
rather than Lights/Mediums getting it good, but Assault JJs still being useless

[Monkey Lover]

Only one I would even think about getting is heat shielding. If they really wanted to get me to buy these they would have to nerf JJ heat more than it is now. This would force me to buy a few on ppc poptarts.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 April 2017 - 03:14 PM.

[Chound]

Reno Blade, on 27 April 2017 - 01:48 AM, said:

I feel the forward thrust to be quite useless.
It's only working from the liftoff, so if you bump into a wall, there is no more forwar thrust.
I won't take these points at all.

The longer burn time + faster lift speed is quite good.
The lower heat is OK, but could be a bit better, but I will still take it for my PHawks.

the only time there should be a strong forward thrust is if you have torso mounted jump jets. If you poptart(Jump up and fire at an enemy) the forward thrust is a problem. I need to adjust certain mechs when they go live.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I'd say it's good enough but too expensive, takes too many nodes.

[Ruar]

Did some testing on my ENF. I usually use two JJs simply to help move over ridges. Went down the left side of the JJ tree for a total of 6% to initial thrust, 15% to burn time, and -6% to heat. There was no noticeable advantage to having these items. Even the 15% burn time just wasn't that much for two JJs.

Then I changed things around and put on another two JJs to max out the amount I could put on the mech. This was rather impressive. I was testing on canyon and now I could jump between the wadi's instead of having to feather down early and jump up after I recharged.

However, I had changed two variables so I dropped the skills and tried things with just the additional JJs. Back to not much of a noticeable difference. Biggest difference was I had enough juice left to feather the landing when I was using the skill tree and I just hit hard without the skill tree.

All in all I can't see the JJ tree being that useful as it stands. To max my lift I'll have to spend 16 total points, the same amount I'm having to invest to get radar deprivation. Having a little more JJ mobility is no where near as useful as radar deprivation.

I think the early post about the percent boost being an issue is spot on. JJ boosts should adjust based on weight. So 15% lift speed should be more like 40% lift speed for a 50 ton mech and 80% lift speed for an assault so that it actually feels like it's doing something. A light should only need the 10-12% boost to get an appreciable change.

Heat can stay a percentage.

Vent calibration should probably be adjusted based on weight the same as lift speed. That way an assault will get more burn time even though they won't move as far as a light with less burn time.

Edited by Ruar, 27 April 2017 - 04:19 PM.

[WillyPete]

If JJs are not nerfed with the drop of the PTS to live, then I foresee no significant numbers of people using it.
People used to the way JJs perform now will not see any benefit from the extra nodes required, unlike the Auxiliary tree where it requires node spend to just get back to where you previously were with consumable use.

If it were to bring the Highlander and Victor back to the way their JJs performed in the pop-tart glory days then I expect to see those mechs using it.

Edited by WillyPete, 27 April 2017 - 04:46 PM.

[Necro Ash]

Tested in SNV, was ablt jump from canyon floor to main tier in Canyon testgrounds.

Probably not worth the investments, but would be a hell of a surprise to someone.

[50 50]

The hard thing here is to test with mechs of different weight classes that have the same number of jump jets.
The lighter mechs tend to have more so when I've had a go with the Clan Omni's it's been a little skewed.
A Viper is great with the Jump Jet skills. but as a 40 ton mech with 8 jump jets, you would hope so.
Executioner does get a noticeable bonus, but perhaps not enough to justify putting points into the tree.
I've tended to think of jump jets on the bigger mechs as ways to get over small hurdles you get caught on and reduce fall damage.
For lighter mechs it does make a difference for positioning, spotting and to out manoeuvre your opponent in combat.

Edited by 50 50, 27 April 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Chound, on 27 April 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

the only time there should be a strong forward thrust is if you have torso mounted jump jets. If you poptart(Jump up and fire at an enemy) the forward thrust is a problem. I need to adjust certain mechs when they go live.

If you just hit "S" right before you jump, you can completely neutralize the forward thrust. Easy-peezy.

[G4LV4TR0N]

50 50, on 27 April 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

Executioner does get a noticeable bonus, but perhaps not enough to justify putting points into the tree.
I've tended to think of jump jets on the bigger mechs as ways to get over small hurdles you get caught on and reduce fall damage.

Executioner + JJ's = Death From Above

At least should, right?