21 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Simple question, simple answer.

[Jubblator]

Yes yes it is, just launch it please, NAO! =)

[Ruar]

I say no simply because I hate the web design and I fear if they release as it is they will lose people. Change it to a linear path and I'm good.

[Andi Nagasia]

i think its good to launch now, i dont like everything with the Skill Tree, but its good,
and if they change something they could always refund the SPs you used in a particular Tree,

[Big Tin Man]

There are a lot of things I'd like to see and a lot of ways it could be significantly better within the current framework, but the current version does yield a playable game, whereas the old version is sad and stale with useless items.

I say yes, launch the damn thing already. This is the best they can do after 5 months (or 3 years, depending on your salt levels), it's time to give up on hoping for something better. (and let us sell GSP!)

[BlueFlames]

91 clicks per mech is not release-ready.

[Ruar]

BlueFlames, on 27 April 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

91 clicks per mech is not release-ready.

That's just to start. Change out weapons or decide to play a different role in that mech and you have even more clicks to turn off and on different nodes.

Too bad there isn't an easier way... like maybe a linear tree... where I can just click the bottom node and the whole branch is filled in for me. Man, that sure would be nice.

[AngrySpartan]

F***, no! It's not even close to be ready.

And I still haven't read any valid argument from the players why they think Skill Tree is ready to go live despite all the problems.

[Chados]

I voted no, not because it's bad but because there isn't enough payoff for investment.

If you hit every node in the firepower tree relevant to LRMs and SRMs, you end up with a max heat gen bonus of less than 0.01% per missile fired. That's a lot of investment for zero payoff. Same with spread bonuses. Artemis is a must and it makes a major difference now, and that's not a bad thing. But if someone is going to spend a third of their SP on the firepower tree they ought to be seeing missile groups tighter than ****'s hatband, PPC-level velocity, at least a 10% range bonus, and noticeable per-salvo heat reduction when firing LRM15 and LRM20, not a negligible change that leaves you thinking that you should have put the points into the mobility tree.

I note the same is true with a maxed out sensor tree. You get 400% 360 target retention if you max the sensor tree. That's a good thing. But only 15% target retention? That's cheap. Though I admit the module didn't do much more, but you are spending more and losing more than you would have by buying a TR module and slapping it in there when Catapult quirks meant something last June.

It's not a bad iteration. But the values need to be tightened up. There needs to be a clear and immediately visible payoff for a 30% investment of skill points in part of a tree. We don't really have that when you max the missile tree and get per-missile increases of a tenth of a percent.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Chados, on 27 April 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

I voted no, not because it's bad but because there isn't enough payoff for investment.

If you hit every node in the firepower tree relevant to LRMs and SRMs, you end up with a max heat gen bonus of less than 0.01% per missile fired. That's a lot of investment for zero payoff. Same with spread bonuses. Artemis is a must and it makes a major difference now, and that's not a bad thing. But if someone is going to spend a third of their SP on the firepower tree they ought to be seeing missile groups tighter than ****'s hatband, PPC-level velocity, at least a 10% range bonus, and noticeable per-salvo heat reduction when firing LRM15 and LRM20, not a negligible change that leaves you thinking that you should have put the points into the mobility tree.

I note the same is true with a maxed out sensor tree. You get 400% 360 target retention if you max the sensor tree. That's a good thing. But only 15% target retention? That's cheap. Though I admit the module didn't do much more, but you are spending more and losing more than you would have by buying a TR module and slapping it in there when Catapult quirks meant something last June.

It's not a bad iteration. But the values need to be tightened up. There needs to be a clear and immediately visible payoff for a 30% investment of skill points in part of a tree. We don't really have that when you max the missile tree and get per-missile increases of a tenth of a percent.

The weapons tree is ****** up in general >.>

[FireStoat]

Voted no.

91 clicks is nuts.
Respec cost completely opposes the design goal of encouraging a variety of builds and experimentation.
Inner Sphere nerfs to quirks on mechs with sharply limited hardpoints is completely thoughtless. One week before the patch rolls out as live should allow a 7 day window of time for players to sell as many owned modules as they have for full Cbill value, before refund conversions go live.

If PGI addressed the above (or most of it) I'd say 'go for it'.

[Andi Nagasia]

is it ready? perhaps,
is it Perfect? no, it can be much improved
but i feel it is ready for Live Testing,

[Lukoi Banacek]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 April 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

is it ready? perhaps,
is it Perfect? no, it can be much improved
but i feel it is ready for Live Testing,

Good for you.

[Jubblator]

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

I say no simply because I hate the web design and I fear if they release as it is they will lose people. Change it to a linear path and I'm good.

They will lose people if they dont launch it.

[l33tworks]

They are close. 98% of the problem of the new skill system was always the convuluted i.e non linear nature that forced unwanted nodes. Not sure how they took this descision so lighly to begin with but I guess we may be stuck with it now.

If theu wanted to reconsider though PGI dont even need to do a proper linear tree people are asking for, just a basic dumb one using the same gui they have now. For example good nodes are 8 trees deep Straight down or they cost 8x as much and bad nodes are only 2 nodes deep etc. But they have to be linear and not include forced nodes people dont want. Thats a really bad system, even if the forced nodes are beneficial and they are not most of the time, people want to phave what they picked amd only that.

[Chound]

Big Tin Man, on 27 April 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

There are a lot of things I'd like to see and a lot of ways it could be significantly better within the current framework, but the current version does yield a playable game, whereas the old version is sad and stale with useless items.

I say yes, launch the damn thing already. This is the best they can do after 5 months (or 3 years, depending on your salt levels), it's time to give up on hoping for something better. (and let us sell GSP!)

convert the GSP into MC or C-bills

[Outcast1six]

I like a lot about the whole skill tree concept. I'm onboard with changing from the boring grind that the current system fosters.

That said I think the nodes, layout and useable nodes needs tweaking. So I voted NO. Reorganize the trees, maybe make some more linear than others. Consolidate some nodes and reduce some clutter and it's good.

[SmokedJag]

For what they want to do, yes with some tweaks. Which realistically can be patched post-release.

People are confusing what they want (same or better performance) with what PGI wants (global nerfs). You aren't supposed to be able to take the equivalent of multiple max weapon modules AND multiple full other trees, or max out armor and ops and Speed Tweak and still take meaningful amounts of firepower nodes.

The overall number of nodes and points is inflated but the ratio intent is quite clear.

Edited by SmokedJag, 28 April 2017 - 02:56 AM.

[HGAK47]

Ok so ive been interested, excited and concerned about the skill tree changes for a while. Gave my opinion here and there on it but thought to myself - I should go and actually try it myself.

Just finished installing everything, logged onto the test server ok I see the breakdown of all sorts of stuff, ok thats nice to have.

Took one look at the skill tress and the mass of windows for XP this and gsp that etc.... and thought **** this. Il try again later if I can bring myself to go through it.

I was hoping for fun exciting customisation not a ******* headache.

Edited by HGAK47, 28 April 2017 - 03:20 AM.

[Croaker Munin]

It is fine as a first step.
Release it. Fix details later. If we wait for the perfekt draft or PTS we will never get a New skill tree. Stop complaining and let's Look forward.?
Quirks were Bad too when the System was released in the First step.