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[Night Thastus]

I tried to keep this short, but it ended up being a bit long. Hope that you'll still take the time to hear me out though.

• The refund ledger is great. It's transparent and easy to understand
  
• The refund, in general, is fine. While we did lose c-bills, we technically didn't lose functionality. And I personally feel that I didn't lose any progress. It feels fine.
  
• The visuals of the tree are fine. It's fairly clear what's activated and what's not. It's relatively easy to navigate and use.
  
• XP for re-equipping a skill node is still bad. It punishes trying out new builds. I know why you did it (because now the rule of 3 is gone, and you figure this method might encourage people to just buy duplicant variants instead) but people still don't like it. I can live with it if it's the only solution you have, but realize that many players will have an issue with it.
  
• XP gains should be adjusted as well to counter for the increased costs. Again, I know why you haven't done this (same reason as before) but it's still not ideal. I can live with it, but realize some people don't like it.

I only have two main issues with the tree. The first has a relatively simple fix that many people will agree with. The second is a more complex issue that might require a re-thinking of how the tree is designed.

First issue: The number of nodes

Clicking on 91 nodes for hundreds of mechs is tedious. With my 'Mechs, I'm going to need to be clicking around the area of 10,000 times. While this isn't a big issue for new players (due to the steady drip of progress) you have to consider players who already have progress. These players are the vast majority of those who are playing the game.

That level of tedium needs to go down. Maybe to around ~25 or so nodes. (They can obviously be made proportionally more expensive/more powerful to counter this, so nothing is lost)

This is a common theme expressed here on the forums, on the /r/outreachHPG subreddit and elsewhere. Players like the idea of choice and flexibility, but this level of nodes is nuts. It can be cut down while still allowing for choice. Less nodes with more power each.

Second issue: 'Mech-to-'Mech balance

This issue is much harder to deal with.

This image demonstrates what we're talking about:

https://imgur.com/bOyhllG

In this image, the black line represents the baseline "goodness" of the 'Mech. How powerful it is. The red represents the additional ability added by quirking.

If you notice, currently a 'Mech like the vindicator isn't very good. But, the powerful quirks somewhat help balance this. (Though I personally don't feel it's anywhere as close to the Kodiak as shown in this picture, I didn't make it)

But the skill tree kind of destroys this. Despite the Vindicator (being an IS 'Mech) having more power from the skill tree, it's still a massive reduction from it's current quirks. However, the Kodiak (which had no quirks before) is now going up, but it's already an excecllent 'Mech!

Do you see the issue here? 'Mechs that were bad before, but had significant quirks are now worse. 'Mechs that were already very good and had no quirks are now more powerful.

This essentially ruins 'Mech-to-'Mech balance.

You can't make the assumption that all IS 'Mechs (for that matter, any mechs) are around the same level of "good". Some are really bad due to a mixture of:

• Low mounted hardpoints
  
• Limited number of hardpoints
  
• Low engine cap
  
• Poorly mixed hardpoints (IE, 6 energy is more useful than 2 energy, 2 ballistics and 2 missile)
  
• Poor hitboxes/shape/size (Especially lights)

Some 'Mechs, no matter what, will just be inherently worse than others due to design. Because of this, they need significant quirks to be even slightly viable.

Stripping away all quirks and giving the same amount to everyone completely destroys anything that these weaker, less choosen mechs had in the first place.

I know this brings up a lot of problems, right? The fix for this has no easy solution. If you give the skill tree for the Kodiak no power, then there's no incentive to use it! And if you counter the changes by giving weaker 'Mechs their OLD quirks plus their new bonuses, then they become very, very heavily quirked. While they wouldn't be overpowered (or even all that good) their heavy quirks would seem a bit ridiculous.

I personally don't know how best to deal with it. However, I am confident that you will find a good solution.

Addendum: A better structure for the tree overall

There is an excellent mockup for the skill tree by So1ahma that you can find here: http://imgur.com/a/ou6tc

Mind you, it's just a mockup. Specific details can be adjusted. However, it's a really well made tree that addresses many of the issues with the current tree (including the number of nodes), makes the choices more relevant to the players, and makes it a bit more fun to use overall.

You might be tempted to jump to conclusions about this tree with a first glace. I heavily encourage you to not do that. Read through it carefully, and ask either people on the outreach HPG or So1ahma himself about it. We'd rather explain how it should be implemented than just have you jump to the "it's bad because X" conclusion before even considering it.

This mockup was one of the most well-recieved ideas regarding the skill tree during this entire time. Please don't just toss the idea out.

Edited by Night Thastus, 26 April 2017 - 08:23 AM.