50 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

vandalhooch, on 26 April 2017 - 10:22 PM, said:

What I think is a far more positive thing about the new system is that the new player experience becomes much more intuitive and familiar to a typical gamer. The rule of three with its various sub-rules for eliting and mastering and the differences between mech, variant, chassis and weight class was a nightmare to teach to new players. The new system, even with it's massive number of clicks, is similar enough to other games that new players should be able to intuit at least the basic mechanics of how it works even if they aren't sure what the terminology within each node means specifically. And, allowing new players to branch out and buy different chassis with their four free mech bays instead of grinding out three variants of one chassis and then selling them to start on another can only help to keep new players interested longer.

Agree with most of your post, except this part.

With all the bar sliders to transfer this XP, that XP and so on, it feels very sloppy/messy. I've had a bit of a play around and it feels quite convoluted to me.

Particularly if you do what I do, and spent a bit of time in the mechlab trying various load outs and then add in Comp vs QP vs FP builds etc, even further tinkering. I can see myself doing a hell of a lot of constant "reskilling". This is going to becoming tiring.

I can swap a mech load out in max 90 seconds and it's done. With the new system not only do I have to rebuild but I've not gotta go and dig the skill tree to find the most appropriate options for what I want to do.

Mechlab life is about to get longer IMO. Not a good thing, people should be out playing the game. I can already see outta my 105 mechs, I'll probably only spend the time skilling a few variants I use regularly, particularly the IS side, because lots of mechs under S/T (based on the PTS) are about to become really under performing and no longer viable. Hardpoint location online it is about to become.

[slide]

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

Agree with most of your post, except this part.

With all the bar sliders to transfer this XP, that XP and so on, it feels very sloppy/messy. I've had a bit of a play around and it feels quite convoluted to me.

Particularly if you do what I do, and spent a bit of time in the mechlab trying various load outs and then add in Comp vs QP vs FP builds etc, even further tinkering. I can see myself doing a hell of a lot of constant "reskilling". This is going to becoming tiring.

I can swap a mech load out in max 90 seconds and it's done. With the new system not only do I have to rebuild but I've not gotta go and dig the skill tree to find the most appropriate options for what I want to do.

Mechlab life is about to get longer IMO. Not a good thing, people should be out playing the game. I can already see outta my 105 mechs, I'll probably only spend the time skilling a few variants I use regularly, particularly the IS side, because lots of mechs under S/T (based on the PTS) are about to become really under performing and no longer viable. Hardpoint location online it is about to become.

I can see what you are saying, but also remember that under the new ST each individual mech has it's own skill tree. So you could buy a Warhammer BW and skill it up to do Ballistics and a second BW to do Laser vomit (perhaps not the best example but you get the point). This would save a lot of the re-skilling you are talking about. Of coarse you need to have mechs and Mech bays which requires Cbills and MC

This is where an over abundance of GSP could come in really handy.

[MischiefSC]

Dogstar, on 26 April 2017 - 10:28 PM, said:

It's also exactly the refund PGI originally proposed that screws over anyone who bought more than a few mechs.

It's not fair because you have to spend more on the skill tree than you did before, meaning mech collectors are seriously screwed and literally have to grind for years to get back to where they were.

Also, people who spent a lot of c-bills on modules get back more money than they need to skill up mechs, and can buy all the new weapons giving them a huge advantage.

Your proposal of 'fair' is so short-sighted that you'd kill off the game entirely.

It gets you back what you spent. Anything more than that, anything at all, is giving you something for nothing. It's awesome that PGI is proposing that. I'm all for the current method because it's hugely more advantageous. What I'm pointing out is exactly what a fair refund would be. PGI is going way, way beyond that. To which people are still bitching.

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

Agree with most of your post, except this part.

With all the bar sliders to transfer this XP, that XP and so on, it feels very sloppy/messy. I've had a bit of a play around and it feels quite convoluted to me.

Particularly if you do what I do, and spent a bit of time in the mechlab trying various load outs and then add in Comp vs QP vs FP builds etc, even further tinkering. I can see myself doing a hell of a lot of constant "reskilling". This is going to becoming tiring.

I can swap a mech load out in max 90 seconds and it's done. With the new system not only do I have to rebuild but I've not gotta go and dig the skill tree to find the most appropriate options for what I want to do.

Mechlab life is about to get longer IMO. Not a good thing, people should be out playing the game. I can already see outta my 105 mechs, I'll probably only spend the time skilling a few variants I use regularly, particularly the IS side, because lots of mechs under S/T (based on the PTS) are about to become really under performing and no longer viable. Hardpoint location online it is about to become.

Nope. You buy a node once, it's unlocked. So you buy all the nodes you'd ever need on a mech and boom. You're done. Reskill to tinker as needed.

[slide]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

It gets you back what you spent. Anything more than that, anything at all, is giving you something for nothing. It's awesome that PGI is proposing that. I'm all for the current method because it's hugely more advantageous. What I'm pointing out is exactly what a fair refund would be. PGI is going way, way beyond that. To which people are still bitching.

I agree I don't get it

People are so fixated on Cbills they can't see the bigger picture. I worked it out for myself. Currently I could buy 12 (average price 15 mil) new mechs with modules and master 6 of them with the GXP I have. After the ST is introduced I will be able to buy 33 mechs, Max skill node all of them , plus all the mechs I own that aren't mastered (about 40) and still have enough GSP to fully skill over 200 more. I really don't see a down side to this.

In fact I would go so far as to say the whole XP system will become redundant for anyone who has spent over 500m on modules, for the life of the game.

[Ghogiel]

I don't see much value in XP refunds over cbills tbh. I don't even know where to spend even 2 mil GXP let alone GSPs. But whatever.

That's all besides the point. Russ doing a "position at the time" over the cbill/module refund is gold. The **** literally came out his mouth while on stage lmao. Anyway they shouldn't be over refunding cheapskates and pokemech players or anyone, I said F'em first time around and still think so. Just gib modules as cbills and save face lol

[Lupis Volk]

So uh can someone explain to me what GSP does with the skill tree.

[justcallme A S H]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

Nope. You buy a node once, it's unlocked. So you buy all the nodes you'd ever need on a mech and boom. You're done. Reskill to tinker as needed.

Missed my point mate

It's the act of not only rebuilding but then going back through ALL the trees to reskill as you want, every time you want to make a change (that a simple module would do the job of). It will take a lot more than 60-90 seconds man, a lot more.

Hence I'd probably go out and buy another KDK3, WHM, BLKNT, HBKIICA etc etc. And sell the poor hardpoint variants I rarely use at all because "mastery of 3". And I have so much XP on those variants across the board that the "3rd" mech in the set is usually not required/needed... So I can insta master the new ones (provided I get my cbills back!)

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 April 2017 - 12:43 AM.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

Here's what an actual refund would look like.

All the cbills you spent on all modules would be refunded 100%.

All the GXP you spent both on mechs and skills would be refunded as GXP.

All the mech specific XP you spent on a mech to skill it up would get refunded as XP specific to that mech, just as it is today.

In the new system the XP you spent to master a mech in the 'old' (current) system would get you about 72 SP. So you'd need to spend 3,240,000 cbills (from your current balance plus what refunds you got) to buy those back in the new system, because that's the cost in the new system. You would then need to spend any XP you have in that specific mech plus another 855,000 cbills to take it up to 91 SP.

If you want to convert your existing stockpile of XP tied to a specific mech to GXP you can use on any mech you'd have to spend MC, just as you do today, to turn it to GXP to spend on another mech.

That's a completely fair refund as it gets you back exactly what you spent to date.

The biggest mistake, by far, PGI has made is being too generous from day 1 with the refund they're giving. Now we've got people who want the XP they spent before matched with the cbill value of it in the new system, with the value of modules in SP give to them for free, plus all the cbills they've spent refunded in full. I'm hugely critical of PGI but that's so ******* entitled I don't even know where to begin.

Am I reading this as "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid)?

It only takes PGi to make something simple needlessly complex.

I just literally want what I paid for in C-bills. I'll have a crapton of GXP/XP anyways, which I don't really need anyways (it's there if I gave a crap - it's superfluous once you reach a certain point).

I still don't see the "generosity" honestly in their current plan.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 April 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[slide]

How is it not generous?

1. GSP gives an absolute metric shittonne of XP you would otherwise not have (and perhaps don't need but beside the point) for free.

2. Every Million cbills spent on modules yields about 220 GSP, enough for 2+ mechs leveled without effort.

To put that in context a Zoom module is worth 2 million Cbills currently. This yields (rounded) 440 GSP. Given that it takes 4 nodes to get Zoom in the current tree. That means every Zoom module cashed in allows you to equip the exact same thing on about 110 mechs. (Note this doesn't work directly for all equivalent modules) but it's close. How is that not generous?

Just because you or anyone else can't use it doesn't make it bad.

[chucklesMuch]

The Maths is working me. As far as i can tell I'm better off than I am currently, in the live environment and much better off than earlier ST refund proposals.

[Davegt27]

Pretty screwy system

Another option would be master for master
That is for each mastered Mech you have your given 91 nodes
Simple

[Marius Romanis]

Lupis Volk, on 26 April 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

So uh can someone explain to me what GSP does with the skill tree.

Davegt27, on 27 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

Pretty screwy system

Another option would be master for master
That is for each mastered Mech you have your given 91 nodes
Simple

I SHOULD just tell you both to go read the fkn : - announcement forum : - PTS skill tree thread

GSP is refund given for all modules purchased prior to dec 3rd. it is complete Skill points (cbill and xp value). You are given GSP equal to Cbill cost of SP. for total value of modules when you purchased them, not sell back value.

You do get 91 SP for each mastered mech........... in current iteration of ST, mischief is proposing you should only get actual XP value of current Skill System back (with cbills covered) not a boosted XP return, I agree with this but it will never happen because the "cheapskates" will cancel their mech packs again.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 27 April 2017 - 03:25 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

Davegt27, on 27 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

Pretty screwy system

Another option would be master for master
That is for each mastered Mech you have your given 91 nodes
Simple

Huh? You get that and some... PGI are being very generous on the HSP side of things. I will have more mechs with 91 nodes unlocked if this drops as is, than i have currently. So purely on the refund ledger side of things i'm quite happy. (however a mech isn't now considered mastered until/unless you unlock all 241 nodes I believe - sure I read that some where)

unless you mean we should get less of a refund... but then how do to you factor in pilot trees (which are part of the new great ST forest?)

Edited by chucklesMuch, 27 April 2017 - 04:06 AM.

[Archer Magnus]

How do you transfer XP in mechs you have sold?

[Monkey Lover]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

.

So you'd only ever master 15 mechs? Not getting new mechs?

Fair enough. However for most people, both people with more than a few mechs and who would get new mechs in the future, the new system PGI has offered is vastly more generous. Also I sorta like the idea of being over-refunded so much I can max out mechs I probably would have never bothered to master up..

I just mean there is only 15 out of the 110 I would master again. If I was given cbills/XP/gxp. I mostly only run the meta anymore. I can say for sure I'm not going to spend millions to XP the 3 commando mechs I have lol
But.this really doesn't work for most because some reason most people want every mech full node ....

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 April 2017 - 05:45 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Real math is looking what you REALLY get for the module, and what the module actually was worth.

ONE Radar Derp module is actually an infinite respecc within the respective tree and I can use it on infinite mechs.

That radar Derp converts now into buying the same effect for only 4.1 mechs and not including any possible infinite respecs.


And thats why I prefer the Cbills, because I surely would never ever bought 4 shot modules for this price at all give people bakc what they spent for the stuff so they cna redecie what to spent the original currentcy for, not a pseudo equivalent currency of similar usage which actually is worth a fraction of the initial currency by usage.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 April 2017 - 06:04 AM.

[Dogstar]

Archer Magnus, on 27 April 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

How do you transfer XP in mechs you have sold?

I don't know, try logging in to the PTS and giving it a shot

[Dogstar]

Lily from animove, on 27 April 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Real math is looking what you REALLY get for the module, and what the module actually was worth.

ONE Radar Derp module is actually an infinite respecc within the respective tree and I can use it on infinite mechs.

That radar Derp converts now into buying the same effect for only 4.1 mechs and not including any possible infinite respecs.


And thats why I prefer the Cbills, because I surely would never ever bought 4 shot modules for this price at all give people bakc what they spent for the stuff so they cna redecie what to spent the original currentcy for, not a pseudo equivalent currency of similar usage which actually is worth a fraction of the initial currency by usage.

Your math sucks. That module might be infinitely reusable but it only fits on one mech at a time

With the new ST you can fit it to 4 mechs simultaneously but can't reuse it

>I surely would never ever bought 4 shot modules for this price at all

but you did because those modules have given you an advantage in all the matches where they were used.

[Lily from animove]

Dogstar, on 27 April 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Your math sucks. That module might be infinitely reusable but it only fits on one mech at a time

With the new ST you can fit it to 4 mechs simultaneously but can't reuse it

>I surely would never ever bought 4 shot modules for this price at all

but you did because those modules have given you an advantage in all the matches where they were used.

I didn't bought a 4 shot module, I bught an infinity shot module. And no havign it in any possibel mech at any time differs a lot from just 4 at the same time. And you know why? Because 4 at the same time only happens in Invasion mode. and only IF I want that VERY same module in all 4 mechs of that dropdeck.
But theres no need for a radar depr If I have a ecm mech and soem others. So your logic is so flawed it is beyond description.

And you last sentence makes no sense, I did pay for a modoule I know I can swap around at any time, now it isn't so no i did not pay for a 4 shot.

For someone that never changes skills and laodouts and bogut one module for one specific mech, that tradeoff may be good, but for anyone who previously swapped modules and/or owns more than 4 mechs it's a pure ripoff of Cbills and every math by using conventional math will confirm this in numbers.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 April 2017 - 06:23 AM.

[Archer Magnus]

Dogstar, on 27 April 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I don't know, try logging in to the PTS and giving it a shot

As far as I can tell that XP is lost, which I would gladly spend MC to transfer.