3 replies to this topic

[Snowseth]

There were a lot of complaints after the last Skill Tree PTS. And you guys did the right thing by pulling it back and doing another PTS.

This PTS ... doesn't seem to fix a lot of things.

Come on PGI. I've been playing MWO since late 2012 (I think) and have been a ... lets says "aggressive" supporter at times, but this is something where I'm on the side of the complainers.

Although I'm firmly on the side that MWO needs a Skill Tree. So you're absolutely on the right path.

The Skill Tree should provide meaningful choice ... but if I'm upping my Armor Structure and must select AMS Overload while not carrying an AMS ... that's not a meaningful choice. And being reminded that I have nodes unlocked that don't affect my loadout because I must select them? Yeah, that's a stupid thorn I don't want, need, nor should accept.

Same for things like Hill Climb. I never used these modules before ... why would I want them now? And how do you think I, and every other player, feels about being forced to take them?

So some suggestions:
Look at the modules that are low use/low value.
Consider how to add value so the node unlocks are valuable.
And that does not mean "valuable" because they're roadblocks to actually used/valuable nodes but are in and of themselves valuable.
That may mean merging nodes or partially merging nodes. So Hill Climb 1 would also include a small Speed Tweak bonus or something like that.
So Hill Climb 1 can still be a Blocking Node for Heat Containment, but it is still worth having in and of itself.

Similar with AMS Overload, give it a small ROF Bonus to all other weapons. Not necessarily huge, but enough to be valuable on its own.

This would also create Inter-Tree connections so the, hopefully, the whole is greater than the sum.
Sensor System nodes could boost Missile/LBX spread.
I'm sure there are other ideas and Inter-Tree crossovers that can be applied to add depth to the Tree Ecology.


Change Re-specing.
Once a node is unlocked by Cbills ... that's it. It's unlocked.
Activation, at least after initial, should cost only XP. It should be a XP sink.
Also, it would allow players to fully unlock a bunch of nodes or even every single node, and change up their Skills and Equipment without prohibitive costs.
Changing loadouts in MWO is a great mini-game in itself and should be promoted.
Unlock as CB and Activation as XP (5thhorseman_ via reddit).
This would solve the 'problem' of having 100K XP just chilling on your mastered mechs!

Once a node is unlocked by SP/XP/whatever ... that's it. It's unlocked.
Activation, at least after initial, should cost only CBills. It should be a Cbill sink.
Also, it would allow players to fully unlock a bunch of nodes or even every single node, and change up their Skills and Equipment without prohibitive costs.
Changing loadouts in MWO is a great mini-game in itself and should be promoted.
Unlock as SP and Activation as CBill would do this.


Take a good, hard look at player Tree ideas.
There are some good ideas out there.
Namely So1ahma's (reddit link) or Duckfright's (reddit link).


This is your baby. It's an idea that has long been needed.
But right now ... it's kind of an ugly baby (sorry papa Russ).
But but! It has a lot of potential. It has a lot of potential to be great.

Just keep in mind, what it really needs is:
Meaningful choice.
Added value, especially for the low value/low use nodes (and parent modules).
Inter-Tree Ecology.
Separated node Unlock (CB) and Activation (XP), to promote the loadout-mini-game.
Utilize your player base and their ideas, they're happily and freely providing things.

And finally, minor additional point related to the Node Unlock/Activation.
Maybe it's also worthwhile providing some bonuses (additional max active nodes or such) for having a more than 91 nodes unlocked.
e.g.;
Unlocking 121 Nodes provides 92 Active Nodes.
Unlocking all 242 Nodes provides 93 Active Nodes.
Or such.

Also also:
Add "useless node" notification to individual nodes (small red dot in a top corner, etc) instead of just the yellow notification at the top of the tree.
Red notice for useless tree is fine as is.

Edited by Snowseth, 27 April 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[oldradagast]

I think at this point the bigger question is WHY they are determined to do something this glaringly stupid?

We've all told them a hundred times that the skill maze is an illogical, tangled design failure. We've pointed out the problems with engine mobility nerfs. We've loudly blasted them for the lunacy of putting a respec cost in a game that depends upon customization and changing things to stay fun.

They don't care.

So, what are they hoping to get out of this? Is it just Russ or somebody being stubborn and nutty about it? Are they switching to a business model where the game will be a miserable, unending grind where the only way to get enough money to do anything is to have premium time constantly running? I really am curious. Normally, I assume stupidity before malice, but this stupidity is so obvious and has been dragging on for so long now, I'm forced to consider alternative explanations and motives for their intent on wrecking the game and spitting in the faces of their players.

Edited by oldradagast, 27 April 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[shameless]

They hate us, and want to move on to some other IP...

[Ultimax]

Snowseth, on 27 April 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

So some suggestions:
Look at the modules that are low use/low value.
Consider how to add value so the node unlocks are valuable.
And that does not mean "valuable" because they're roadblocks to actually used/valuable nodes but are in and of themselves valuable.

For example in Path of Exile's MASSIVE SPRAWLING skill tree - the nodes you a FORCED to take in between nodes you WANT tend to be UNIVERSALLY USEFUL TO EVERY BUILD as they tend to be +mana or +HP.

So if on the path to getting all the stuff you want, you had to buy nodes along the way that gave totally basic stuff like:
+structure
+mobility type bonuses

People would probably like this a whole lot better.

So yes, those trees would need to be paired down or removed all together - so those bonuses could then be pumped back into the other trees and then the other trees could have distinct sub-trees to focus on X or Y or Z.

It still doesn't work as cleanly as Solhama's solution, but PGI probably wants to launch their Constellations of Skills no matter how clean, easy to understand and utilize a community derived solution is.