7 replies to this topic

[Calbearpig]

Doing the math in the spreadsheets, many IS mechs would have to fully invest in multiple parts of the skill tree just to get to the absolute bonus values they used to have with quirks. Sometimes, these absolute values are less than before. (Spider (OF ALL THINGS), Rifleman, Blackjacks, King Crabs etc).

It's OK to make absolute bonus values less than before when it's due to removal of modules and fast fire, because this is a symmetric nerf that applies to any and all mechs.

What makes this nerf garbage is what happens to RELATIVE balance, because mechs that used to have bonuses that only were possible due to quirks are now relatively worse compared to other mechs. Ballistic velocity used to only be a thing with quirks. Now my King Crab 000B is nerfed to 10%, down from 30%. Before, it had 30% advantage over clan assaults for velocity. Now, even at max investment, it has only a 10% advantage. And, those mechs didn't used to have ANY bonus, so they can now be strictly better, both in absolute and relative balance terms.

Crap mechs get relatively crappier because skill tree bonuses apply evenly for mechs of all tiers, while good mechs get even better because they did not used to have any quirks. By stripping the asymmetrical bonuses out of the game PGI is making the game less balanced and less fun because the relative bonus difference between different mechs will narrow and the relative balance difference will widen.

I don't know how they justify nerfing quirks when the whole purpose of them was to create asymmetric bonus adjustments for underperforming mechs. By making all bonuses symmetric you give me very little reason to drive anything other than a timber with max structure bonus and srm cooldown. This needs to be fixed.

Edited by Calbearpig, 25 April 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[HGAK47]

I hear you man, so do many others.

PGI said that it will take time to get it all right, ok cool but do they acknowledge the balance concerns that appear to be mainly coming from IS mech pilots? That is the thing im not so sure on.

It seems to me that is would be easy to fix but without different trees for different mechs they have to keep either a quirk or some sort of modifier to the new skill tree.

[Calbearpig]

Yeah, my biggest issue is it would just take the fun out of the game. A lot of the mechs I drive are mechs that are not considered "good" in the general sense, but because they have some tasty quirks to make up for it they provide a fun and novel experience / gimmick builds. (like quickdraws and all of the riflemen)

If PGI removes these, there is no point in me piloting anything that's not a timber wolf with maxed out structure and missile velocity boating SRMs.

[Andi Nagasia]

many Mechs that had Structure Quirks are keeping them, to insure Shape Balance,
many Mechs that had Agility Quirks lost them, but those are being rolled into Base Mech Agility(Engine Decupling)
many Mechs that have Weapon Quirks that lost them did only lose them, but they will be Compensated by Clan Nerf,

in this case most Clan Mechs lost Quirks as well even the MLX and SHC lost their Missile Spread Quirks,
the ACH SCR TBR NTG, have lost a good bit of agility bringing them down some and more on an IS level,
also some Skills benefit, IS makes out with -15% duration(Clan -10%) and better Cooldown as well,

the ACH has a 240XL, but with the Decuppling it has an (Engine to tonnage 6.5) 6.5*30(Tonnage) is 195,
so the ACH will have the Agility of a 30Ton mech with a 195Engine(the KFX also has a 6.5 Ratio(+15Rating/Agility)
so yes the ACH is getting Nerfed, in Agility, so there you go, but only time will tell how things will work,
(see Gas Guzzler's Topic on this to see how things will soon Feel)

[Alexander of Macedon]

It honestly feels like these decisions were all made by people who got into BTech through MW4 and still haven't gotten rid of their hard-on for clams and muh 1 omni = arbitrary # IS 'mechs ego stroking.

[ForceUser]

IS is getting new tech to bring them to a similar level as clans, not to mention all IS mechs are battlemechs so they do not have the issue of hardlocked JJs, HS and engines. Also engine decoupling means that there is less focus on big engines an this will again, mostly benefit IS mechs as they have unlocked engines. Planned release date for new tech is July 18th, that's 2 months after the planned release date of the new skill tree. If I were to guess, I'd say as soon as the Skill tree patch drops we'll get a PTS for the new tech.

It doesn't make sense to redo all the balancing work AND have to manage a PTS AND develop the new tech all in 2 months.

Besides I ran a bunch of IS mechs on the PTS yesterday, they are fine with the new tree.