12 replies to this topic

[Aysnorelax]

I've sunk nearly 500 hours into this game and when I loaded up the PT and saw the skill tree myself I was so overwhelmed. How does PGI think a new players will react to seeing this jumbled web of percentages.[redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 10 May 2017 - 01:26 PM.
Insult/language & staff abuse

[Monkey Lover]

I think new people will do what i did in world of tanks click stuff and hope i upgraded the right thing lol

[Reno Blade]

I think everyone will do the same.
Click the new skill menu, scroll and zoom, click everything to see what happens and understand by seeing the text of the nodes and the text of your skill buff list on the right.

No idea why this is so hard.
Not every game needs to be hand-holding.

But maybe just suggest a UI-tutorial / help-screen if you think this needs new user experience help?

[SmokedJag]

As if the current skill system explains anything...

It took me a while to realize that putting pilot skill points into weapons didn't inherently buff the weapons and I also needed to buy and mount the thing.

[Bud Crue]

Every argument about population on these forums ends with someone posting steam and leader board stats showing the population is stable or perhaps has a slight loss over time. So what that suggests to me is that PGI doesn't hate new players, but rather they simply have no appreciable numbers of new players.

Why bother worrying about NPE when you have no NPs to worry about. I honestly think that is their approach here.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 April 2017 - 03:36 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

PGI doesn't hate new players. PGI hates all players.

[BodakOfSseth]

Aysnorelax, on 26 April 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

I've sunk nearly 500 hours into this game and when I loaded up the PT and saw the skill tree myself I was so overwhelmed. How does PGI think a new players will react to seeing this jumbled web of percentages. **** you russ.

Translated:
"I'm not a new player but I'm offended by... something. But instead of making it about me, I'm going to mask my irritation behind "championing" the "poor defenseless noob" who couldn't possibly know better"

Please stop speaking for the newbs. As a newb, and every other newb I've spoken with (more than a few) We think the new skill tree is awesome.
Don't have to follow rule of the 3 to get top performance? Frikin' sweet.
Don't have to underperform while trying to save up some ridiculous amount of cbills for modules? Awesome.
Can see gradual increase of mech ability after each game? Nice.

If you're not counting your self as part of a group, please don't speak for the group.

Edited by ScottAleric, 27 April 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[naterist]

Idk why they made this sp system. They coulda just refunded everything as gxp and made nodes a one time direct purchase with the currency we have now.

[BodakOfSseth]

Right. More nodes and more options and choices means fewer mech builds and more standardization than the BS we have today where you buy two mechs you don't want and grind them until you can give them all the same exact 8 skill buffs.
then grind some more until they all get the exact same four skill buffs
then grind some more until they all can get an extra module slot
then grind some more until you can afford the cbills for modules.
Then, because there's no variability beyond buying modules, a JM-DD will always have either UAC/5s or AC/2s and an XL engine.
Because that's a lot of variety.

I fully understand decoupling and I've looked over the changes in the spreadsheets. I *WELCOME* it. The sweet sweet tears and QQs over how slow mechs react is something I look forward to.

Maybe you missed where Skeletal density and Armor hardening scales by mech tonnage - A 20 ton locust can max out at 41% buff vs a 100 ton atlas gets 25%
Armor hardening scales between 26% to 10%.
Ohes noes! Atlai get 12 more points armor on their CT, and 15 more points of structure!! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?? They're going to be UNBEATABLE!!
Give me a break.

Systems of diminishing returns are all about sorting on a personal level where the breaking point is. Do you think it's worth it to spend 7 points for a 9.3% boost to skeletal density or go full bore with 17 points for the full 31%? Or do you choose to not select any of it? that's up to you, and it's a personal choice because (and here's the kicker)
NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO TAKE ANYTHING

Finally?
Newb "new-b" a friendly term recognizing someone is new and learning.
Noob "noob" a term that means "you're new and stupid and not worthy of respect"

So, perhaps you should take a deep breath, and stop talking down to people.

Edited by ScottAleric, 27 April 2017 - 10:59 AM.

[Mycroft000]

I don't pretend to see this from a new player's perspective. But what I can see is that there is too much choice with no limits. The lack of limits will lead to the pro players eventually "solving" the skill tree and determining what the best 1-4 possible selection of skills will be and once they do solve it, that information will disperse to the general population. New players will be left to do lots of searching across Reddit, Mwo forums, Facebook, and probably more that I'm not aware of, in order to discover what that optimal set of skills is.

If we were limited on how many nodes we are allowed to unlock on each tree, and not limited by "filler" nodes, then we would actually end up having to make meaningful choices as to what skills to unlock.

Sensors are the example I keep using. Reduce it from the 27 nodes that exist currently to some number like 21, and we can only unlock 7 nodes in the sensor tree. That means we don't get to unlock 6 Modules worth of skills when we take Radar Dep. We have to choose Radar Dep at the expense of getting access to the rest.

[BodakOfSseth]

mycroft000, on 27 April 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Sensors are the example I keep using. Reduce it from the 27 nodes that exist currently to some number like 21, and we can only unlock 7 nodes in the sensor tree. That means we don't get to unlock 6 Modules worth of skills when we take Radar Dep. We have to choose Radar Dep at the expense of getting access to the rest.

...and that's one option. Personally, I like having access to the other 6 modules worth of skills - it reduces choice paralysis.

Here's the other thing that I see happening, and this is the fault of PGI perhaps, or maybe they're doing it this way for a reason.

PGI: "Here is a sandbox to test skills. Test and let us know!"
Community: "OMG ALL THE THINGS ARE EVERYWHERE THERE'S SO MUCH WE CAN'T HANDLE IT ALL; EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE AND PEOPLE ARE DYING"
PGI: ...

With the Incursion test, they weren't looking to redesign the mission from the ground up, but the community certainly tried to. They were looking for specific feedback; node locations. values of rewards. values of turrets, walls. what can be destroyed and how easily. basic behavior of automated defenses like turrets and drop ships.

PGI is certainly not looking to redesign the skill system from the ground up (again), but the community is definitely trying to. They made their major revision from the first one. the refund system and minor changes to skill tree layout was the result.
They're probably looking for anything that breaks and adjusting some values now. They're also probably hoping that this prepares players for the actual rollout with the new revised final values.

People spending their time and energy trying to re-engineer PGI's system are just going to end up frustrated and mad.
Maybe PGI should have made clear what they're looking to test instead of giving us a sandbox and dealing with the caterwauling entitled players.

[Mycroft000]

You're right, and I'm prepared with my 87 Nodes I need on 90% of my mechs I'll ever pilot. That gives me 4 "elective" nodes to play with. I still think their tree system is poor game design and will not lead to meaningful choices that they're hoping it will. I do hope that our feedback will again get them to revisit the refunds because that is really misguided. GSP is great in theory for those who can use it all, but I'm going to need to buy 121 Mechbays to and grind enough cbills to buy somewhere around 150 mechs to use up all of my GSP. That's just not going to happen. I'm going to end up with massive amounts of GSP I won't really have any need for, or I'm going to sell off dozens of modules on the day before the skill tree goes live and be extremely unhappy about the 50% loss on my C-Bill refund that was originally promised.