7 replies to this topic

[itsGreyspot]

I'm starting to get the hang of the new skill tree system but I noticed all of the speed tweak nodes are still blocked by Arm Pitch. It seems like a waste to spend points on nodes that have zero utility for mechs without hard points in the arms like the Pirate's Bane.

There's been talk from the devs about trade offs but with some of the other blocking nodes, for example, Target Info Gathering in the Sensor web or Hill Climb in Operations, those nodes do something for the mech even if the player doesn't put value in the node for their build but unlock them to put points in down the road.

A similar complaint can be said about Torso Yaw for Urbies but there's another path down the tree to take Torso Pitch instead.

I understand that the skill trees can only be differentiated between IS and Clan, but
would there be a way to rework mobility to either allow a couple Speed Tweak nodes early on or allow more paths to Speed Tweak?

(Maybe move Speed Tweak 1 and connect to Torso Pitch nodes 3 & 4, and Arm Pitch 3; unlocking Torso Yaw 5 and Kinetic Burst 5. Then move ST2 and connect to Torso Yaw 5 and Kinetic Burst 5 without any unlocks.)

Thank you for giving us another PTS pass at the Skill Trees.

[Nicodemus Rosse]

Someone else on here had mentioned the idea of setting unusable nodes to a "pass-through" state where they're considered unlocked and active, but don't count toward your limit or cost anything. It wouldn't necessarily work for every node, but this is one example of a situation where it'd be an ideal solution.

Alternately they could have a normal cost in SP to unlock, but wouldn't count toward your maximum number of active nodes?

[itsGreyspot]

The pass through idea sounds like a good alternative, maybe pay for the pass through (edit: limited to maybe 5 or 10 max pass though nodes to keep it from being exploited) like a normal unlock and they stay inactive for purposes of stats?

So a mech without NARC could pay for the node, leave it as pass though then unlock the nodes behind it. If they then turn the NARC node on it counts against the 91, (so they'd need to give up a node if already at max).

Edited by itsGreyspot, 28 April 2017 - 05:06 AM.

[Nicodemus Rosse]

Given the current skill tree design, it'd probably make more sense for nodes you own to go into pass-through mode automatically based on your loadout. If you do something to your build that turns one (or more) nodes from pass-through to operational, you'd get the same kind of "Invalid" warning, just as you do if you take the engine out of a 'mech or don't have at least 10 heat sinks.

The balance downside there is that this will favor some 'mech chassis or configurations that can use pass-through to get more oomph out of the skill tree because they lack something or other. I could see some exploits of this on, for example, the Firepower tree.

Edited by Nicodemus Rosse, 28 April 2017 - 08:56 AM.

[itsGreyspot]

I haven't looked at the firepower tree too much yet. It made me go cross-eyed.

[Nightmare1]

I'm fine with trade offs if they're reasonable, but arm pitch is a pretty stupid skill. Using it to tax you for daring to choose Speed Tweak is maddening.

Trade off is when you go, "I want both skills but Skill A is more important than Skill B, so I shall sacrifice B for A."

It's not, "Oh, I want Skill A and Skill B, but Skill C is blocking both of them, so I guess I'll buy Skill A, pay my Skill C tax, and then forgo Skill B and also Skill D since I had to spend two whole points instead of one this time."

[testhero]

itsGreyspot, on 27 April 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'm starting to get the hang of the new skill tree system but I noticed all of the speed tweak nodes are still blocked by Arm Pitch. It seems like a waste to spend points on nodes that have zero utility for mechs without hard points in the arms like the Pirate's Bane.

There's been talk from the devs about trade offs but with some of the other blocking nodes, for example, Target Info Gathering in the Sensor web or Hill Climb in Operations, those nodes do something for the mech even if the player doesn't put value in the node for their build but unlock them to put points in down the road.

A similar complaint can be said about Torso Yaw for Urbies but there's another path down the tree to take Torso Pitch instead.

I understand that the skill trees can only be differentiated between IS and Clan, but
would there be a way to rework mobility to either allow a couple Speed Tweak nodes early on or allow more paths to Speed Tweak?

(Maybe move Speed Tweak 1 and connect to Torso Pitch nodes 3 & 4, and Arm Pitch 3; unlocking Torso Yaw 5 and Kinetic Burst 5. Then move ST2 and connect to Torso Yaw 5 and Kinetic Burst 5 without any unlocks.)

Thank you for giving us another PTS pass at the Skill Trees.

Wow! a real suggestion of how to improve the skill tree! This is more of what this Forum needs and needs badly
(There are too many complaints and not enough ideas) I also thank PGI for another Pass at the Skill Tree.

Changing a couple of the nodes could fix this problem Hopefully without creating another problem or allowing a shortcut to more desired skills further on.

Nicodemus Rosse, on 27 April 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

Someone else on here had mentioned the idea of setting unusable nodes to a "pass-through" state where they're considered unlocked and active, but don't count toward your limit or cost anything. It wouldn't necessarily work for every node, but this is one example of a situation where it'd be an ideal solution.

Alternately they could have a normal cost in SP to unlock, but wouldn't count toward your maximum number of active nodes?

This would be great for Chassis that have no need for some of the skills.

It might have to be implemented at the chassis level rather than the variant level Mech designs like the pirates bane you suggested might not benefit as the Chassis Manufacturers build arm musculature and actuators to account for Variants that do have arm mounted weapons like most other locusts.
This would preclude designs that for instance can forgo arm weapons like the Kodiaks or Maulers from benefiting unfairly
But for Chassis designs like the Urbanmech that have no need for torso yaw across al varients it would be a perfect solution.

Weather you pay to unlock the node or not would be a small concern against the gain of not having to use one of your 91 active nodes

Keep the Ideas coming Guys !

[Scyther]

Part of the issue stems from whether your starting position is "the Skill Tree is not very well designed, and some small improvements would really allow us all to get better use out of our 91 nodes", vs. "The skill tree is designed exactly the way the devs want it to be, where spending your 91 SP means you have to pick at least 11-15 nodes that are useless/near useless for your mech. That way they can limit you to 75-80 useful nodes while pretending to give you more".

Given the persistence of some issues from Skill Tree 1 to Skill Tree 2, which are also not addressed in their 'we're working on it for May release date' blurb, it's pretty clear that option 2 is the one the devs are shooting for.

Now as to exactly why the devs favor a large, complex, potentially confusing, off-putting to new players, and obviously-inefficient skill tree to a more streamlined approach, well you would have to ask Russ and Paul that I guess.