34 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

El Bandito, on 29 April 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

Except PGI did say that they would offer full refund at one point, but then some people got mad cause of that because they wanted a form of SP instead, to skill up their "hundreds of mechs". So I personally would blame it on part of the population.

Then there are those of us with hundreds of already-skilled up mechs who, under the refund system, wouldn't need any SP since they already have a shart-ton of MXP and GXP and wanted the cbills to purchase more mechs or, to re-equip their mechs when the LFE's come out.

Seriously, there is something badly broken when I am sitting on 3,000,000 exp for some of my mechs and there is nothing I can do with it.

Bluttrunken, on 29 April 2017 - 03:52 AM, said:

I think Premium Time should stay a real dollar purchase. PGI needs to make money to keep developing the game. If they enable buying Premtime with in game currency they're losing out on most direct purchases from their most devouted customers. They should probably put it on sale more often, though.

You just make using real money to buy things FAR cheaper. The whole point is to make playing the game rewarding -- the more people that play a F2P game, the more appealing a F2P game is to new people. Likewise, successful F2P games have a way, in game, to do everything that you can do with money -- it just takes longer.

Edited by nehebkau, 29 April 2017 - 08:15 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

nehebkau, on 29 April 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

You just make using real money to buy things FAR cheaper. The whole point is to make playing the game rewarding -- the more people that play a F2P game, the more appealing a F2P game is to new people. Likewise, successful F2P games have a way, in game, to do everything that you can do with money -- it just takes longer.

No one needs premium time. It's just a convenience item. Thus it should stay a dollar purchase. Imo.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 30 April 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Giving people exactly what they want for their money? ... Ain't happening.
Welcome to the real world brought to you by Freedom and Democracy.

[L1f3H4ck]

Khobai, on 27 April 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

pgi has always been cheap with cbills this is nothing new

they dont want to give people a full refund for modules because they think itll hurt their bottomline.

even though they know people rightfully earned those cbills by playing

The full cbill refund was their original plan. It got shouted down by the cheapskates.

[Karl Streiger]

Can anybody explain as simple as possible - why its impossible to just have only C-Bills? No XP no GXP no GSPs no HXP or FXPs or UXPs or CXPs or KXPs.... or similar.
When you got C-Bills you can buy stuff - well of course but you might not have enough for leveling
When you got C-Bills you can ignore the master on your Atlas and Orion and put them in your fresh Kodiak and Night Gyr...and? Is this a problem when there are a hundred mastered Kodiaks and Night Gyrs and less mastered Orions and Atlas more in this game - does it really matter?

[Bud Crue]

Karl Streiger, on 02 May 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

Can anybody explain as simple as possible - why its impossible to just have only C-Bills? No XP no GXP no GSPs no HXP or FXPs or UXPs or CXPs or KXPs.... or similar.
When you got C-Bills you can buy stuff - well of course but you might not have enough for leveling
When you got C-Bills you can ignore the master on your Atlas and Orion and put them in your fresh Kodiak and Night Gyr...and? Is this a problem when there are a hundred mastered Kodiaks and Night Gyrs and less mastered Orions and Atlas more in this game - does it really matter?

The issue is that if players are suddenly flush with c-bills they will in fact spend those c-bills on mechs. If players are provided with assured progress but left c-bill poor, not only will they get bored fairly quickly with their mechs (at least for those who play the grind) but they will also have no c-bills to buy new mechs with; and thus they are far more likely to buy mechs with real $.
Add to that the fact that we are to be a one mech system, and making players c-bill rich is a near guarantee that such players will never need buy another mech with real $ ever again. That is PGI's fear.

[Karl Streiger]

Bud Crue, on 02 May 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

The issue is that if players are suddenly flush with c-bills they will in fact spend those c-bills on mechs. If players are provided with assured progress but left c-bill poor, not only will they get bored fairly quickly with their mechs (at least for those who play the grind) but they will also have no c-bills to buy new mechs with; and thus they are far more likely to buy mechs with real $.
Add to that the fact that we are to be a one mech system, and making players c-bill rich is a near guarantee that such players will never need buy another mech with real $ ever again. That is PGI's fear.

maybe - but you would need those cbills for grinding your skills. so you can have one fully skilled mech or a company of mechs without skills. The more mechs the more mech bays and drop bays correct?

however, the issue with c-bills is that there is no real working economics in MWO - because prices are from tt and try to explain somebody that he need to pay more for less (Gargle)

solving the 3 mech problem would need roll warfare and economics - (reason to have variants) but not going to happen.

[Bud Crue]

Karl Streiger, on 02 May 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

maybe ...

No maybe about it. Russ said as much (in far more words, and with a joke that some folks got real bent over) during the last skills tree town hall thingy.

Edit: I agree that it is shortsighted (aren't we about to get a MASSIVE c-bill sink in the form of new tech?) but it is essentially what he said. I suppose you could make the argument that he is concerned about "destabilizing the economy" (I believe that was his phrase) with all those c-bills from the perspective of it would allow c-bill rich veteran players to more fully take advantage of new tech than others who are not c-bill flush, but either way he doesn't want all those excess c-bills in his "economy".

Edited by Bud Crue, 02 May 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

then he should have thought about a different system or reconsider his economy (not that it is good at the moment) - LBX and CAC (price of two for the function of one)

I never thought that I would surrender to complex math - but maybe that's the issue with the new skill tree - it's no math it's a complex construct bar any logic.

the same construct only a brain capable of inventing Ghost Heat or Energy Draw is able to do.

I bet there are dozens of options all of them simpler in understanding simpler in coding and even better for the game as a whole for each of those constructs

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 May 2017 - 05:12 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Karl Streiger, on 02 May 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

I bet there are dozens of options all of them simpler in understanding simpler in coding and even better for the game as a whole for each of those constructs

Geezus...you just hit on PGI's new moto I think:

PGI
In gaming there are dozens of options. All of them simpler, easier and better than what we do.

[Karl Streiger]

regarding economics... the economics is 100% in the hand of PGI.
They can make any change in the MechLab cost money,
They can drop the inventor of equipment

for example, you have a 300er str rated engine and want to change it towards a 350XL - 4,000,000 Cbills
Or you want to mount a 222 STD instead 4,000,000 Cbills
You want to add a ERPPC - 1,000,000 instead of a small laser
or better a ER Medium Laser 1,000,000
change es on a Atlas 5,000,000 or on a Locust 5,000,000

I don't say this would be a good option - but it's possible no need to stick with CBT prices

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 May 2017 - 05:23 AM.

[nehebkau]

Seriously, though, did it even cross PGI's mind to talk to the community before they make these decisions? A SIMPLE FARKING POLE WOULD HAVE HELPED:

HOW PGI SHOULD HAVE DONE IT:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Community,
After going over the numbers on the c-bill module reward system we found that there would be some issues. The primary issue being that many players would end up so flush with c-bills that we are concerned they would never need to buy MC or a new mech ever again, resulting in a substantial loss in revenue for us long-term. We were also concerned that this huge influx of cbills would effectively allow players to bypass the membership constraints we placed on units and, put veteran players in a superior position when the new tech comes out. All of these lead us to the realization that we can't dole out cbills like we promised. So, in that regard we have some other suggestions we would like you to vote on:

.... <several options here>....

While we can't guarantee what you pick is what we will do this will give us a good indication on what you value and let us try to ensure we can take your preferences into account while we re-work the rewards for modules. We know some of you are not going to be happy with this decision, but we have to make it so, please, ensure you let us know what your next-best choice would be.

-------------------------------------------------------

HOW PGI DID IT
-------------------------------------------------------
Great news everybody, remember how we said we were going to give you cbills? Well not so much. Instead we decided to give you more experience. We know you will like this better.
-------------------------------------------------------

[Bud Crue]

nehebkau, on 02 May 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

Seriously, though, did it even cross PGI's mind to talk to the community before they make these decisions? A SIMPLE FARKING POLE WOULD HAVE HELPED:

HOW PGI SHOULD HAVE DONE IT:
...

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

PGI needs to get someone with some basic Public Relations skills to be part of their decision and communications team (some one with some marketing skills wouldn't be a bad addition either).

[nehebkau]

Bud Crue, on 02 May 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

PGI needs to get someone with some basic Public Relations skills to be part of their decision and communications team (some one with some marketing skills wouldn't be a bad addition either).

Groupthink.... "We know better than everyone. What we decide is always awesome because we all agree it awesome and we know we make better decisions than anyone on the outside so we don't need their help. Now lets just let Paul and Russ tell us what is best."

[Bud Crue]

nehebkau, on 02 May 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

Groupthink.... &quot;We know better than everyone. What we decide is always awesome because we all agree it awesome and we know we make better decisions than anyone on the outside so we don't need their help. Now lets just let Paul and Russ tell us what is best.&quot;

I think it is worse than group think though...or maybe an additional issue. I mean these are basic PR mistakes that no company should be making let alone a small independent developer of a niche product (thank god for that exclusive license!). While group think may explain their often ham-fisted development decisions, only total indifference to their customer base can explain their frequent self-induced acts of metephorically "shooting themselves in the foot" when they introduce or attempt to "sell" those decisions to their customers. From the mechcon presentation of the skills tree and it total falicies ("quirks removed", place holder values, etc) to your example above regarding refunds. These missteps may or may not be a consequence of groupthink, but they are most assuredly examples of a company not knowing how to present itself and its ideas in a positive manner.