26 replies to this topic

[MadHornet]

[ This is NOT bashing new players, this is just exactly what has been happening to my matches as I'm seeing fewer reputable players to compete against. ]


It is certainly not a T1 T2 player majority. I have consistently seen people who have no concept of weapon ranges or how to position an assault mech. Every other match me and people I have recognized as good players get an anchor strapped to our back because of a flood of people I have not seen once.

I'm not saying "they're all potatoes", these people honestly don't belong anywhere near T1. It's bad for us. It's bad for them. Nobody wins.

This tier system in the past several months isn't providing me with matches that enable me to try my best. My matches end with 3 - 5 people doing sub 100 damage on one side. I can't do enough damage when the enemies die too fast, and I can't do enough damage when my team dies too fast, and the people who die too fast can't do anything because they're paired with people they shouldn't even be seeing.

It's becoming impossible for me to exceed even 800 damage because I lose would-be essential teammates faster than I can reach the peak of the fight.

Yes, this has begun fairly recently, and I can only imagine climbing this tier system is more about time than it is experience and I think people have finally climbed the peak through shear casual persistence.




It is becoming unplayable, the likes of which I have not seen since early 2013 open beta. This is not an exaggeration.

[Mister Blastman]

There are many pilots not worthy of being Tier 1.

The problem is there aren't enough penalties to playing poorly, nor are pilots graded on a floating curve versus their peers. Instead it is an experience bar. This is wrong. Tiers should be structured on a floating curve, with stiff penalties for scoring poorly, thus having a net effect of aggregating players around the middle tier, with truly bads moving to the bottom, and gifted superstars moving to the top.

And to stay at the top, you have to stay good, as good is computed constantly versus your peers.

And once that is done...

The matchmaker takes into account individual scores and recent individual performance when balancing the teams using both this curve parameter and recent match scores, to yield a better result.

[MadHornet]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

There are many pilots not worthy of being Tier 1.

The problem is there aren't enough penalties to playing poorly, nor are pilots graded on a floating curve versus their peers. Instead it is an experience bar. This is wrong. Tiers should be structured on a floating curve, with stiff penalties for scoring poorly, thus having a net effect of aggregating players around the middle tier, with truly bads moving to the bottom, and gifted superstars moving to the top.

And to stay at the top, you have to stay good, as good is computed constantly versus your peers.

And once that is done...

The matchmaker takes into account individual scores and recent individual performance when balancing the teams using both this curve parameter and recent match scores, to yield a better result.

Which this matchmaker has not done. It seems that all of the players who are still not well versed in the mechanics have finally caught up or something. I used to have matches with almost exclusively players I have known and played against because it was T1. It feels like I'm being pressed against a wall by a growing crowd of strangers.

[Shifty McSwift]

A Melting pot? A leftovers casserole? Perhaps a gumbo?

Certainly not a boiling pot.

[Shifty McSwift]

But that is what happens when you have no 'casual' multiplayer mode in a game where you have to level up and test out new mechs with your full rank applying. Leading to a wide variation in capacity (more so than the normal day to day variations) or individual play from game to game.

[Druarc]

Wierd I'm T3, but seeing the same thing. The classic where did rest of team go? Then see 3 or more players with less than 50 damage at end of match. You expect 1 or 2 sub 100 but not the current level. Had 1 match recently where 1 player got 1000+ damage but also had 5 sub 100, we lost. Last 2 weeks have been really bad for it.

[jjm1]

Hasn't it always been like this though. The team with the most AFKs, flamer boats, 2km suppression LRM master race and people using a pen tablet as an input device will naturally get steamrolled by a team that is average.

[MadHornet]

jjm1, on 27 April 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

Hasn't it always been like this though. The team with the most AFKs, flamer boats, 2km suppression LRM master race and people using a pen tablet as an input device will naturally get steamrolled by a team that is average.

It hasn't actually. The people you're talking about are not normally the issue as they are few and far between. I'm seeing a real change in who I'm being paired with and it is really off-key.

[Jman5]

If it were up to me, I'd just do an Elo system based on average Matchscore of your last 100 games instead of WLR. Then give you a separate score for each weight class (last 100 games in light, last 100 in medium, etc).

This gets around every problem I can think of.

Edited by Jman5, 27 April 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[Kodyn]

Something is definitely up with the tier system. Either it's gotten to be faster to level up, much more so, or they've started opening valves more to deal with low population.

For example, I'm T2, normally I see the same general group of T2-T1 players, sometimes T3s, yet lately...in one example we had a guy on our team with a Cat-A1 with 2x LRM 15, nothing else, trying to shoot people in his face. He was clearly brand new, someone advised him on LRM range, he thanked them for the info, said he didn't know about that, and was new.

That's pretty rough for everyone involved if you've got brand-new, I'm assuming T5, players in a T2/T1 match. Aside from the one example I've noticed overall the lower damage, less meta loadouts, and less recognizable players in most matches.

[Pr8Dator2]

Jman5, on 27 April 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

If it were up to me, I'd just do an Elo system on average Matchscore of your last 100 games instead of WLR. Then give you a separate score for each weight class (last 100 games in light, last 100 in medium, etc).

This gets around every problem I can think of.

I have for the longest time supported the idea of a average match score based matchmaking!

[Alex Morgaine]

Unicorn land can be fun. If you don't get blapped in the face full on :/

[LordNothing]

the whole psr and matchmaker system does only one thing well. fixes games so everyone has a w/l as close to 1 as possible. when the match maker slots a couple of tier 1s in with 10 potatoes, its doing so because it thinks the t1s are winning too much and need to loose, and on the odd chance said t1s carry that bag of potatoes, elevate those who would otherwise be loosers. its an expert bit of control theory, as someone who has tuned a few pid controllers in his time i find it pretty nifty, if it wasnt messing up the game that is. this is why i prefer fp, at least im not being lied to about my abilities.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 April 2017 - 09:18 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeah they keep letting all these noobs into higher tiers. Good thing us non noobs who all clearly earned our placements through sheer skill and coolness are all here in the same room to complain about it.

[kesmai]

Jman5, on 27 April 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

If it were up to me, I'd just do an Elo system based on average Matchscore of your last 100 games instead of WLR. Then give you a separate score for each weight class (last 100 games in light, last 100 in medium, etc).

This gets around every problem I can think of.

+min 50 matches

[justcallme A S H]

MadHornet, on 27 April 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

It is certainly not a T1 T2 player majority. I have consistently seen people who have no concept of weapon ranges or how to position an assault mech. Every other match me and people I have recognized as good players get an anchor strapped to our back because of a flood of people I have not seen once.

I'm not saying "they're all potatoes", these people honestly don't belong anywhere near T1. It's bad for us. It's bad for them. Nobody wins.

This is not an exaggeration.

I cannot agree more. Now, the below is also no exaggeration as the screenshots are a pretty damn common occurrence for me in the vast majority of my games in "T1".

Both are from US Peak today, not in the dead of Oceanic (which is usually where I play, and I expect it to be more prevalent)






In both matches the team was 0-2 or 0-3 after initial engagements.

There is definitely a BIG problem with the rate peoples experience bar (PSR) goes up in relation to match score. A really big problem.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 April 2017 - 12:45 AM.

[Vellron2005]

All I can say is, it is possible in this game, no matter how good you are, to simply find yourself in a situation where you have the skill, the nicest meta-mech, and still do ZERO damage..

Image striding the battlefield in a nice shiny Kodiak KDK3, a machine of ballistic death, only to be cut down in your prime by a ****-storm of LRM on Polar, without even seeing a target lock?

This happened to me once... I never even had the time to lock a target.. they must have had like 5 LRM boats or something..

The PSR does not take things like this into account.. it only looks at raw statistics, and it is entirely possible to have your team carry you into T1..

So yeah..

I agree that only 100 of your last matches in any given weight class should be locked at.

[Khobai]

Quote

There are many pilots not worthy of being Tier 1.

except what you think a tier 1 player should be and what pgi thinks it should be is totally different.

the tier system is not a ranked ladder like you seem to think it is. thats not the purpose of the tier system.

the tier system is simply an xp system that guages how many games a player has played. And it keeps the complete beginners who are just starting out from playing against players who have hundreds of matches under their belt.

so yeah everyone whos in tier 1 deserves to be there. because theyve played the number of games required to be tier 1. its xp system not a ladder system.

you should not be proud of being tier 1. it doesnt mean anything other than youve played the game a whole lot.

Quote

I agree that only 100 of your last matches in any given weight class should be locked at.

no that is absurd. the point of the tier system is just so noobies dont get picked on by veterans. that is the only reason it exists. it doesnt exist for you to stroke your epeen.

that is why theyre adding an 8v8 ranked ladder. if you feel you need to prove something play that gamemode.

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2017 - 01:08 AM.

[Lily from animove]

time to throw in some pasta

[HGAK47]

Yea when the loadouts of a given team can be wildy different, unoptimised and un-cohesive all the way up to the chance of getting a fully synergised team of a certain type of player.... you are going to have drastically varying battles regardless of how good or bad the match maker is.

If the whole team are playing to brawl, get a good bralwing map and go up against a mixed bag of everything, they tend to win easily. Conversly ive seen reasonably good players get smashed by that 1 in 100 battle where there is a team chocked full of lurms and lights with narcs and tags on a good open map.

Cant always blame the match maker.