28 replies to this topic

[dragonkid11]

Hey there, I have been a mechwarrior game series player and a in-depth Battletech fan for years.

After going back to mechwarrior online about a week ago, I have been trying to earn back some c-bills and go for my favored IS mech.

Which brought up this problem, because I want to be in an IS mech that doesn't get sawed in half immediately and died from XL engine failure.

While I'm still too poor to really spend precious c bill on XL engine, I do have my eyes on either Dragon or Marauder and hoping to upgrade their firepower with weight gained from using XL engine.

Is there any notable IS mech I should know that are too wide or big to get a XL engine installed?

Edited by dragonkid11, 28 April 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Koniving]

After the skill tree changes, the list might not be as important since a lot of the fast kills that have been going around is going to be reduced...

But basically peer at this hitbox list.
If the side torsos are not huge, they are XL engine friendly.

Stalker and Thunderbolt would be the worst ones to shove XL engines in. Thunderbolts bounce a lot when going really fast so it doesn't matter if the engine is of a really high rating. Stalkers can't put a huge engine in, so you're kinda screwed. Especially since all Stalkers are bad at turning and twisting.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

shadowhawks and centurions do XL well both are mediums as for heavies and assaults i would probably wait for the new civil war tech engines(july maybe) i would even suggest downloading and testing stuff in the test server so you dont blow your cbills testing builds.

[Koniving]

This said, sporting standard engines, both (The Stalker and the Thunderbolt) could tank more damage than an Atlas with a STD engine can since a destroyed ST reduces all incoming damage that hits said destroyed ST by 60%.. The large arm hitboxes of the Thunderbolt reduces damage by 60% and then again by another 60% after passing through the destroyed ST before it goes to the CT.

Edited by Koniving, 30 April 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[Humpday]

Warhammers and Shadowhawk can run XLs relatively well.

Running XLs is a matter of pilot skill however, you either have to make sure you stick to second line(Warhammer), or get in, snap some shots off, and GTFO in a hurry(shadowhawk).

When running XLs keep your feet moving and go fast.
If running a slower XL, maintain mid-range attack at second line, make sure your team is in front of you and in back of you.

Edited by Humpday, 28 April 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[Koniving]

A Warhammer I could understand.

Issues with an XL in an SHK? This is confusing. I've gone XL and STD with them... I almost always die by CT or legs regardless. Or were you saying XL is good in an SHK, which makes the GTFO part confusing. I tend to stand in front of people and keep shooting until they die, then continue on.

<.< What? I like my Damage Over Time.

[Koniving]

dragonkid11, on 28 April 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

While I'm still too poor to really spend precious c bill on XL engine, I do have my eyes on either Dragon or Marauder and hoping to upgrade their firepower with weight gained from using XL engine.

As an avid pilot of both (I own every single Dragon and I made this Marauder collage a while ago.), yes they are both XL friendly.

Marauders can go either way. They will live a LOT longer if you go standard OR, if you learn to be subtle in your torso twisting. Your side torsos may be insanely long, but they barely exist on the front and can be used to soak damage away from the CT through subtle twisting movements.

Don't let enemies flank you and if you're shot from behind, do NOT turn first -- torso twist to an extreme extent to one side, throw it in reverse and THEN turn. The torso twist deprives them of where they were shooting. The reverse makes any attempt they make to go forward to find your rear torso again an act of compromising futility and finally the turn so late into the mix is bound to help you find them after they done ****** up.

Dragons: Armlock off. Use shift to hold-lock/toggle. Practice aiming with the mouse with armlock off, especially to your extreme sides. Then practice using the left CTRL key to take full control of your arms. If you master the "o" crosshair, you will unlock the full potential of the Dragon. As this skill is lost to most players whom came after early 2013... you will see a lot of "hate" for Dragons. Salt from the victims that never learned the skills necessary to be the Dragon.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 28 April 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

As an avid pilot of both (I own every single Dragon and I made this Marauder collage a while ago.), yes they are both XL friendly.

Marauders can go either way. They will live a LOT longer if you go standard OR, if you learn to be subtle in your torso twisting. Your side torsos may be insanely long, but they barely exist on the front and can be used to soak damage away from the CT through subtle twisting movements.

Don't let enemies flank you and if you're shot from behind, do NOT turn first -- torso twist to an extreme extent to one side, throw it in reverse and THEN turn. The torso twist deprives them of where they were shooting. The reverse makes any attempt they make to go forward to find your rear torso again an act of compromising futility and finally the turn so late into the mix is bound to help you find them after they done ****** up.

Dragons: Armlock off. Use shift to hold-lock/toggle. Practice aiming with the mouse with armlock off, especially to your extreme sides. Then practice using the left CTRL key to take full control of your arms. If you master the "o" crosshair, you will unlock the full potential of the Dragon. As this skill is lost to most players whom came after early 2013... you will see a lot of "hate" for Dragons. Salt from the victims that never learned the skills necessary to be the Dragon.

There is a very good reason why I put the Dragon on my list of mechs everyone should master, and I don't mean skill tree master.

The Dragon teaches you to work with less then fantastic hit boxes, use your arm movement and make the most of a limited hard point count.... It's a mech I am glad I spent time in before I bought a Timber Wolf.... Had I started with a Timby, I think I'd lack a lot of skills needed to make mechs like the Dragon and Bushwacker work.

[Humpday]

Koniving, on 28 April 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

A Warhammer I could understand.

Issues with an XL in an SHK? This is confusing. I've gone XL and STD with them... I almost always die by CT or legs regardless. Or were you saying XL is good in an SHK, which makes the GTFO part confusing. I tend to stand in front of people and keep shooting until they die, then continue on.

<.< What? I like my Damage Over Time.

Different play style, I definitely don't tank in my XL based SDH-2D2, I come in hot, knock off 2-3 alphas, depending on the situation I'll get back into cover, or commit to the kill. The whole time I never stop moving.

Edited by Humpday, 28 April 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[Metus regem]

Humpday, on 28 April 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Different play style, I definitely don't tank in my XL based SDH-2D2, I come in hot, knock of 2-3 alphas, depending on the situation I'll get back into cover, or commit to the kill. The whole time I never stop moving.

Sounds similar to the SHD-2D2 I run on my "What mech are you" challenge alt. Stick and move.... The first match I used it in, it racked up 3 kills (two Dire Wolves and a Mad Dog)...

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

shadowhawks were my 1st 'i cant believe im still alive mech'

[Humpday]

Metus regem, on 28 April 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Sounds similar to the SHD-2D2 I run on my "What mech are you" challenge alt. Stick and move.... The first match I used it in, it racked up 3 kills (two Dire Wolves and a Mad Dog)...

I run:
4 x srm4: 4 tons of ammo
1 x ac10: 2.5 ton ammo
on an XL300.

I'll flip back and forth between dropping the arms to 0 armor and adding a single jump jet to turn around quickly in a pinch, but for now i put 8 points in both arms, since I shield alot during the approach. Its not much, but just enough to get me in range before they take the arm.

I dont' run lasers because I want to snap off shots and shield right away, that way I'm not facing enemy directly.

I only recently mounted this build as I was finishing my mastery in prep for skill tree. Previously it never got used and had an abysmal w/l k/d ratio. In one day i took it from like a .4 k/d to over 1+. But the end of the week I should have it around 2 k/d with the rest of my mechs.

Edited by Humpday, 28 April 2017 - 08:15 AM.

[BlueFlames]

Most IS mechs with big side torsos also (currently) have big durability quirks for those side torsos. A big XL engine also (currently) improves your twist speed, making it easier to shield a side torso that goes soft before the other side. I'd argue that right now, just about all of the IS mechs are XL friendly.

I run an XL275 in my HBK-4P, contrary to a lot of the advice you'll receive on the forum. I shield with my left side, until it goes soft, and then I shield with the hardened right side. When the right side goes soft, I face-tank, since most people default to shooting Hunchbacks in the CT. If the CT goes first, then it doesn't matter that I had an XL. If the right side pops first, then that's all of my weapons gone anyway. If the left side goes first, while the right side was soft, then I probably only would have taken one more shot with a standard engine, before my useful time on the battlefield ended. The only time the XL is a liability is when my left side gets smashed really hard, really early, and that's pretty rare, unless I'm way out of position.

If you can make an XL work in a Hunchback, then you can make it work in just about anything. Use the added running speed to pop up where you're less likely to take fire, and use the added twist speed to make sure that incoming shots hit where you want them to hit.

The caveat from my first paragraph is that PGI is running a public test that includes major quirk reductions for IS mechs and decoupling various forms of agility--including torso twist speed--from engine size. If these changes go live, then XL life in IS mechs will get a lot more difficult.

[Koniving]

XL Hunchback before quirks.

7 kills, 711 damage.
Another video, without the ECM escort to show that the first time I played it wasn't a fluke. Still before most IS quirks but now up against Clans (which all had quirks.) 1 kill, 5 assists, 477 damage (3rd most damage of both teams)

After quirks, it's like god mode.

Oh, 2017. XL (but much slower) Hunchback.

I should note: Grid Iron is my worst Hunchback.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[CFC Conky]

The new skill tree notwithstanding, I find the Blackjack and Marauder to be decent mounts for an XL engine. The Blackjack is pretty agile and the Marauder tanky, both of which will allow you to survive better. That said, I'm a newish player so others may have different opinions and/or better options for you.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[dragonkid11]

Huh, I kinda hated the Hunchback because it was so damn easy for people to just shoot at the big gun and destroy my torso.

Guess I should have tried a XL engine on it before selling it to make spaces...

[Koniving]

dragonkid11, on 28 April 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Huh, I kinda hated the Hunchback because it was so damn easy for people to just shoot at the big gun and destroy my torso.

Guess I should have tried a XL engine on it before selling it to make spaces...

Actually, what you should have done was 2 rear right torso armor, all else to the front as if it were a chicken walker. Its front torso is huge.
Its rear torso used to be a tiny square the size of the Hunchback's fist.

They have since fixed it, but with torso twist like the Hunchback has, who could actually hit your back?

Left torso should usually be a bit more rounded, since the drum on your back complicates things. It's the "left" torso that is super easy to kill you. In fact when they finally did kill me that's how they did it. Left torso.

[Vlad Striker]

Vindicator is XL friendly, Enforcer.

[Rogue Jedi]

here is a list of IS Mechs which I consider to be XL Freindly, just because it is not on the list does not mean it is not XL freindly, these are all Mechs I have spent enough time in to make the judgment for myself
Lights
Locust, Commando, Spider, Urbenmech, Jenner, Raven, Firestarter, Panther
Mediums
Cicada, Centurian, Enforcer, Shadowhawk
Heavys
Dragon, Catapult, Grasshopper, Warhammer, Black Knight
Assualt
Battlemaster


Mechs which can run XLs but are (in my opinion) better with standard engines include
Wolfhound, Griffin, Jagermech ^{(more out of needing the XL for tonage for weapons, the JM6 is way more durable with a standard)} Marauder.

Mechs I definately would not take an XL on are
Hunchback, Thunderbolt, Stalker, Atlas.

note in 3 months when we get the Light Fusion Engine many of the Mechs on that list which weigh more than 40 tons will get a Light engine rather than an XL or a standard as the Light Engine will be able to survive loosing 1 side but will offer less of a weight saving than the XL

[dragonkid11]

I think ALL light mech is XL friendly because if you don't have XL, you will DIE really fast.

Also, Centurion is XL friendly? I thought its wide torso would make it die from XL faster?

Edited by dragonkid11, 28 April 2017 - 04:27 PM.