35 replies to this topic

[AnTi90d]

I could see Rocket Launchers being used in a Locust / Oxide light swarm in FP.

3 RL20 and the biggest MRM that can fit with the leftover tonnage.

[Dracol]

ChapeL, on 28 April 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

I can't see MRMs streaming. It's an unguided medium range missile system. To me it seems more logical to use it as a saturation weapon. Something where you might be able to aim at specific parts with a 10 rack but an MRM 40 would just hurl a wall of missiles at your target. ( Imagine having to stream 40 missiles onto a target... that much face time will get anyone killed. )

Could do stream, with every MRM launcher having the same duration for the stream. 10 rack firing 1 missle at a time in a stream. Each upgrade of 10 would add an additional missle fired at a time. That 40 rackwould fire 4 misslez at a time in a stream. If ton/crit don't favor smaller racks, this would help low missle hard point mechs.

[FupDup]

I think that PGI is barking up the wrong tree with Rocket Launchers because they encourage a suicidal "fire one big shot and now you're useless" playstyle. It's going to be fairly hard to make them worthwhile enough to justify their single-use nature while still somehow making them not feel cheep as hell when you get instakilled from full health by a mech carrying 80+ rockets for very low tonnage.

I wish that PGI would either avoid them or break the lore with them to fit the game better.

My own idea is as follows:

• The Rocket Launcher comes default with enough free "ghost ammo" to fire exactly one salvo. This means that TT stock builds with RL's are untouched.
  
• You can equip additional Rocket Launcher ammo as you wish so that you can fire more than once.
  
• The weapons will have fairly long cooldowns (most lightweight weapons in this game have fast cooldowns, for reference) to preserve the "flavor" of high burst damage for low tonnage. Basically the missile equivalent of Heavy Lasers.
  
• Not sure about stream fire or not. I guess try it to help keep them more distinct from SRMs and make super crazy oneshots less likely.
  
• Spooky Heat may need to be involved to deter people from loading up a mech with nothing but Rocket Launchers as a missile equivalent of the Dire Star mech.

Edited by FupDup, 28 April 2017 - 08:37 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

I do agree that stream fire for RL's would solve the "suicide" issue and would justify a damage increase.

I do really like the 10 tube limit on MRM's, that would bring a different style, and help regulate 40 potential damage on target.

[Elizander]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 April 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Single shot rocket launchers doesn't sound hugely appealing to me. Does the idea of the 80RL lolcust just involve a 1 shot spam then useless ideal? Because if so, honestly that sounds stupid, why would they want to promote suicide builds and/or who would ever really want that in the meta? For the cheap lols then sheer boredom and consistent trolling by suicide rambos being advocated by a build? That just sounds disastrous.

There are mechs where the missile hard points are ignored and it might well be worth 0.5-1.5 tons to deal an extra 10-20 damage per hardpoint. If the heat isn't too restrictive then it's good for front-loading damage or helping you get a kill/KMDD come event time.

For examplke with a Shadowhawk 2K you usually just get 3 large-type lasers to go with the 3 energy, but you can spare an extra 1.5 tons to get 30 damage worth of 1 shot missiles with the spare 3 missile points. Energy stalkers will almost always have room for extra missiles too among other things.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeah as a backup space filler or support damage weapon to be combo'd with a main or main set of weapons thumbs up (not that there's ever a lot of "spare space, but one would assume they would be super lightweight at 1 shot.

It's just that lolcust suggested by the OP sounds horrible, a real leeroy jenkins build and one that would mostly promote clownish play especially with multiple in a team.

Johnny Z, on 28 April 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

They've come a long way baby ;D



Definitely a psychological warfare weapon too, and if could be replicated in MWO they would make amazing area control weapons, that spread

[Mcgral18]

ChapeL, on 28 April 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Myeah, packs of 10 VERY quickly streaming from the tubes could work. ( a throwback to how MW4 did it, only much faster )

Question: Are MRMs affected by AMS being that they are unguided ? I can't seem to remember.

In MWO, all missiles can be targeted by AMS

MRMs should be moderately vulnerable (depending what PGI sets their HP to)

[LordNothing]

id do rls with stream fire. except where you can interrupt the salvo by letting go of the button so you dont have to launch all the rockets in the first volley. mrms should do stream fired salvos.

reasoning is that its hard to lead with dumbfire missiles. its not like ppcs where you at most have to lead by one or two mech widths on all but the fastest mechs. you have to fire a couple salvos to zero in for perfect aim. given the range of mrms stream fire lets you check your lead with the beginning of the salvo and get the feedback you need to adjust your aim. rocket launchers have the same problem, but its worse because you only get one set of missiles. so in that case if you could tap off a couple rockets you can check your lead before you commit to firing the rest. missing will be very expensive. id hate to see it as a weapon that works in only one very specific condition (against a potato standing unmoving in the open).

Edited by LordNothing, 29 April 2017 - 03:37 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

LordNothing, on 29 April 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

where you can interrupt the salvo by letting go of the button so you dont have to launch all the rockets in the first volley.

I often wish this could be done with many weapons, particularly lasers (but maybe not pulse).

[LordNothing]

Shifty McSwift, on 29 April 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

I often wish this could be done with many weapons, particularly lasers (but maybe not pulse).

id actually like to see that on the heavy lasers. burn times of 2 or 3 seconds, but you can abort if your target moves out of view or one of your potato teammates walks in front of you. mw3 had something like that on its pulse lasers and it was rather nifty.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 April 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

LordNothing, on 29 April 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

id actually like to see that on the heavy lasers. burn times of 2 or 3 seconds, but you can abort if your target moves out of view or one of your potato teammates walks in front of you. mw3 had something like that on its pulse lasers and it was rather nifty.

I would think here, with how pulse lasers function as lowest burn time of the lasers, and best damage rates, pulse really doesn't need it, but for lasers in general I think it would help them compete with pulse in ways with the added flexibility it would grant.

[LordNothing]

im listening to the thing and it sounds like they are just cut and pasting everything. rls are going to be one shot (no streaming of rockets firing all of them on the first pull, which is unfortunate) and all the lasers, ppcs, gauss are going to be the same. the only weapon really getting new mechanics are the racs, they have to spin up before they fire (rather than a ramping rate of fire like real guns have) and its getting jambar. this is probibly because they can use the gauss charge and flamer mechanics together, except instead of spiking heat its triggering a uac style jam. the code was already there, a composite of existing functionality.

Shifty McSwift, on 29 April 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

I would think here, with how pulse lasers function as lowest burn time of the lasers, and best damage rates, pulse really doesn't need it, but for lasers in general I think it would help them compete with pulse in ways with the added flexibility it would grant.

i wouldn't use it on pulse lasers like mw3 did. idk why mw3 did it that way. a pulse laser is supposed to be a really high power pulse that takes place over the course of a few milliseconds. so more like a ppfld. they are treated like hitscan in mwo, but it looks like its a string of pulses, which is good enough, even though functionally its the same as any other laser. interruptable beams make sense for lasers with really long burn times, so heavy lasers. but pgi doesnt like to write code and we are not getting anything like that.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 April 2017 - 04:24 AM.

[Johnny Z]

LordNothing, on 29 April 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

im listening to the thing and it sounds like they are just cut and pasting everything. rls are going to be one shot (no streaming of rockets firing all of them on the first pull, which is unfortunate) and all the lasers, ppcs, gauss are going to be the same. the only weapon really getting new mechanics are the racs, they have to spin up before they fire (rather than a ramping rate of fire like real guns have) and its getting jambar. this is probibly because they can use the gauss charge and flamer mechanics together, except instead of spiking heat its triggering a uac style jam. the code was already there, a composite of existing functionality.



i wouldn't use it on pulse lasers like mw3 did. idk why mw3 did it that way. a pulse laser is supposed to be a really high power pulse that takes place over the course of a few milliseconds. so more like a ppfld. they are treated like hitscan in mwo, but it looks like its a string of pulses, which is good enough, even though functionally its the same as any other laser. interruptable beams make sense for lasers with really long burn times, so heavy lasers. but pgi doesnt like to write code and we are not getting anything like that.

The big thing is this game wouldn't be adding new weapons unless they were ready to start adding stuff, meaning this game is in that state now. That's a really good thing.

Another huge bonus is that no new weapons or equipment was added for years. The easy road would have been to keep adding gear none stop making a complete mess of everything and totally lose the sim. That didn't happen!!

Instead they have basically mastered the balance elements and are now adding new gear on a extremely solid foundation.

This game deserves nothing but cheers especially if they start adding new content going forward. Really.

If that happens this may be one of the best built games ever. Where they avoided adding pink clouds to things like MASC or green sparkles to things like ECM, as many games have done even recently.

It has avoided adding pink camo LL with rainbow beams like even the game Destiny fell victim to.

Or an inventory nightmare like most games do where most items in the game are complete trash.

Really I could go on about the mistakes this game has avoided because there are many.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 April 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[LordNothing]

Johnny Z, on 29 April 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

The big thing is this game wouldn't be adding new weapons unless they were ready to start adding stuff, meaning this game is in that state now. That's a really good thing.

Another huge bonus is that no new weapons or equipment was added for years. The easy road would have been to keep adding gear none stop making a complete mess of everything and totally lose the sim. That didn't happen!!

Instead they have basically mastered the balance elements and are now adding new gear on a extremely solid foundation.

This game deserves nothing but cheers especially if they start adding new content going forward. Really.

If that happens this may be one of the best built games ever. Where they avoided adding pink clouds to things like MASC or green sparkles to things like ECM, as many games have done even recently.

It has avoided adding pink camo LL with purple beams like even the game Destiny fell victim to.

Or an inventory nightmare like most games do where most items in the game are complete trash.

Really I could go on about the mistakes this game has avoided because there are many.

i kind of think they have always had the ability. almost every game ive modded with the possible exception of quake (you had to know quake c and be able to use the command line compiler, but it was still very easy to add new weapons and mechanics) has stuck all the weapon specs in text files of sorts, and adding new weapons was as easy as adding new entries. mwo uses xml files for everything, so its just a matter of cut and paste to add stuff. if modding was permitted under the coc, the community would be in the dark ages already.

[stealthraccoon]

Just seems silly to release two new weapons, and then have them operate nearly identical.

[Mcgral18]

stealthraccoon, on 29 April 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

Just seems silly to release two new weapons, and then have them operate nearly identical.

Pretty much ALL of the FutureTech™ are operating nearly identical to current options

Lasers are Lasers
MGs are Lasers
Dead-fire Missiles are Dead-fire missiles (SRMs)
Locking missiles are locking missiles


There's some variety there, but they all operate on nearly identical framework to what we have now
RACs might be the exception (because they could use the MASC bar for jams) instead of RNGeesus plz


Though, MRMs and RLs will share most of the same characteristics, like every other laser in the game