36 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I noticed you rolled a good amount of mobility/agility quirks into the Mechs' base stats. Good.

However, I see that on all the Mechs that lost offensive quirks, you forgot to unlock the skill nodes for those quirks while you were rolling them in.

Look at the Rifleman 3N. The Ballistic cooldown and velocity quirks were reduced, but when I went to my 3N's skill tree, for some reason the velocity and cooldown nodes weren't preactivated.
Could you please go through and audit this out? Thanks. I did leave a feedback post about it, too, since this is a pretty significant bug.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Really, nothing?

Nobody cares that PGI forgot to roll the missing quirks into the skill tree?

Quirkless Mechs are not getting anything removed, meaning the balance post is supposed to remain where it is (ALL Mechs are supposed to retain their effectiveness), but many IS Mechs are getting their effectiveness reduced because PGI forgot to roll the removed quirks into the skill tree. Is this not significant to anyone?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 28 April 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Maybe you should take it to twitter.

I'm no longer going to try and explain things to those that say they know what's best for the game, I no longer think it's worth the hasel, of trying to warn P.G.I about the issues they're adding.

Your right of course and it's pretty big, but if after they roll this out the games crap, I take my money and support elsewhere, it's as simple as that.

Good luck PP I no longer care

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

PGI never said anything about rolling the offensive quirks that are being removed into the skill tree.

They did say they were rolling accel/decel quirks etc into base stats from the engine decoupling.

Although I do not agree with the offensive quirk removals, I don't see how PGI forgot anything?

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Fuc k Inner Sphere mechs.... all bow before our supreme Clam overlords!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***PGI approves this comment***

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 28 April 2017 - 09:41 AM.

[LordNothing]

i think the best bet is to roll in a global offensive modifier. just a single percentage value that applies to all skill nodes in the weapons tab. values on the order of a few percent should give those under performers a slight advantage. these can be either negative or positive and would be a pretty straightforwards way to calibrate balance per varient.

you might have similar calibration vars for other tabs as well, for example lights may receive a global sensor modifier to sensor tab items, assaults might get a higher global armor modifier to the armor tab and the like. these too could be calibrated for balance.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 April 2017 - 10:17 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quirks were a mistake to begin with. If they go missing, so much the better.

[Monkey Lover]

Prosperity Park, on 28 April 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Really, nothing?

Nobody cares that PGI forgot to roll the missing quirks into the skill tree?

It's nothing because your months late to this debate

#1 forum post on the pts1 was due to this. Here is Russ's reply.

Quote

Mar 13
Russ Bullock @russ_bullock
Replying to @BishopSteiner
I am fine disagreeing with the community on some aspects of balance as we have shown that is going to happen

[Cabusha]

They didn't forget. They're waiting until after the skill tree is out and in use, then will rebalance as needed. So yeah, post skill tree GG IS mechs for a while.

[Mystere]

Just say no to "offensive" quirks.

[Monkey Lover]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 28 April 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Fuc k Inner Sphere mechs.... all bow before our supreme Clam overlords!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***PGI approves this comment***

Haha good is mechs are still going to be good because they didn't have quirks to start with.

Bad clan mechs are getting hurt with this too.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Progression models in a PvP game and equipment balance DO NOT mix nor should they ever be.

[Bud Crue]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 April 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Progression models in a PvP game and equipment balance DO NOT mix nor should they ever be.

Welp, Russ it would seem, begs to differ.

[MechaBattler]

Sub performance mechs will get worse. They also got hit by the less cooldown and heat skills. And then they strip away their offensive quirks. Quirks intended to make mechs like the Vindicator remotely capable of standing up to mechs that are just plain better. Unless they institute fixed convergence for torso weapons, mechs with mostly low slung arm weapons will always be inferior. Armor and structure help address it a little, but not enough to really make taking a mech with low slung arms equal to a mech with high slung weaponry.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bud Crue, on 28 April 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

Welp, Russ Paul it would seem, begs to differ.

FTFY, Russ may have said it, but I doubt he made the decision to do it in the first place.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 April 2017 - 11:00 AM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I am annoyed to say the least that PGI again is doing balance changes while rolling out a new system. Like I could understand, though it is stupid, cutting quirks by the amount you can regain in the skill tree, but, let's just take my personal pet mech as an example as it is kind of a "wait, why?" example.

The Phoenix Hawk 1b has a 50% PPC velocity quirk atm, PTS they cut it to 30%, via the skill tree you can regain a total of I believe 10% (5 nodes for 2% each). Now you could say "oh if they cut off 10% that would make some since as you can regain it via the skill tree" but then it is a "wait, hold on one tick" the skill tree is basically all of our weapon modules put into one massive tree. So what gives? Why are we changing balance with the tree? Logic says hold everything the same when you want to test something other than the variable you are testing. PGI is dumping in Engine Desync and Skill Tree into MWO so why **** with mech quirks? It makes 0 sense, more so since you can't regain the lost power in many cases. Like were the 2xPPC PXH-1b's that over performing that they needed to be nerfed? Then why weren't they nerfed in the April patch? Like some things are minor, such as my example, 30% PPC velocity is still pretty good, I'll do fine with it, but, other nerfs are weird and left field for PTS. Like why are we changing quirks on PTS, shouldn't we see if these quirks become too strong due to the PTS then decrease them from there? "Oh it becomes too high, well, let's cut off 5% and see how it is then" you know logic or something. Then again, I used the L word, Logic, that word that typically is not applicable to anything related to MWO.

[Mystere]

Bud Crue, on 28 April 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

Welp, Russ it would seem, begs to differ.

That is his prerogative. On the other hand, we as consumers can always close our wallets.

[MechaBattler]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

I am annoyed to say the least that PGI again is doing balance changes while rolling out a new system. Like I could understand, though it is stupid, cutting quirks by the amount you can regain in the skill tree, but, let's just take my personal pet mech as an example as it is kind of a "wait, why?" example.

The Phoenix Hawk 1b has a 50% PPC velocity quirk atm, PTS they cut it to 30%, via the skill tree you can regain a total of I believe 10% (5 nodes for 2% each). Now you could say "oh if they cut off 10% that would make some since as you can regain it via the skill tree" but then it is a "wait, hold on one tick" the skill tree is basically all of our weapon modules put into one massive tree. So what gives? Why are we changing balance with the tree? Logic says hold everything the same when you want to test something other than the variable you are testing. PGI is dumping in Engine Desync and Skill Tree into MWO so why **** with mech quirks? It makes 0 sense, more so since you can't regain the lost power in many cases. Like were the 2xPPC PXH-1b's that over performing that they needed to be nerfed? Then why weren't they nerfed in the April patch? Like some things are minor, such as my example, 30% PPC velocity is still pretty good, I'll do fine with it, but, other nerfs are weird and left field for PTS. Like why are we changing quirks on PTS, shouldn't we see if these quirks become too strong due to the PTS then decrease them from there? "Oh it becomes too high, well, let's cut off 5% and see how it is then" you know logic or something. Then again, I used the L word, Logic, that word that typically is not applicable to anything related to MWO.

From their post about it. It almost sounds like they have some other changes in mind to help shore up these changes. But they aren't telling us what those changes might be. Perhaps they figure they need live server data to see where we are after the skill tree/engine decoupling changes. It's major inconvenience for anyone that is trying to go against the grind and run substandard mechs.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

MechaBattler, on 28 April 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

From their post about it. It almost sounds like they have some other changes in mind to help shore up these changes. But they aren't telling us what those changes might be. Perhaps they figure they need live server data to see where we are after the skill tree/engine decoupling changes. It's major inconvenience for anyone that is trying to go against the grind and run substandard mechs.

Pretty much it is a pain in the arse for subpar mechs, as in almost every IS mech, because they are getting shafted for no reason while the strongest get more options to buff their load outs. Clan mechs with 0 quirks now have skill tree quirks to up PPC velocity, decrease heat gen, better Gauss-PPC sync, faster charge, lower cool down, slap on more armor so you can trade more times, 0 downsides for them with this. Engine Decoupling is hardly a problem though, main thing you really feel it on is most mechs don't like to stop instantly after 65 tons, and torso twist a lot slower without upgrades and thus feel like they are, well, mechs, and not call of duty dudes who don't have to cycle through weapons to shoot different guns. But, hey, Chris, the new balance guy, said, his job starts the day Skill Tree lands on fixing everything it breaks so I am all for it landing and just dealing with it, used to running subpar mechs anyways, now I will just see higher damage numbers because everyone taking survival, firepower, and mobility.

[VanillaG]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

I am annoyed to say the least that PGI again is doing balance changes while rolling out a new system. Like I could understand, though it is stupid, cutting quirks by the amount you can regain in the skill tree, but, let's just take my personal pet mech as an example as it is kind of a "wait, why?" example.

The Phoenix Hawk 1b has a 50% PPC velocity quirk atm, PTS they cut it to 30%, via the skill tree you can regain a total of I believe 10% (5 nodes for 2% each). Now you could say "oh if they cut off 10% that would make some since as you can regain it via the skill tree" but then it is a "wait, hold on one tick" the skill tree is basically all of our weapon modules put into one massive tree. So what gives? Why are we changing balance with the tree? Logic says hold everything the same when you want to test something other than the variable you are testing. PGI is dumping in Engine Desync and Skill Tree into MWO so why **** with mech quirks? It makes 0 sense, more so since you can't regain the lost power in many cases. Like were the 2xPPC PXH-1b's that over performing that they needed to be nerfed? Then why weren't they nerfed in the April patch? Like some things are minor, such as my example, 30% PPC velocity is still pretty good, I'll do fine with it, but, other nerfs are weird and left field for PTS. Like why are we changing quirks on PTS, shouldn't we see if these quirks become too strong due to the PTS then decrease them from there? "Oh it becomes too high, well, let's cut off 5% and see how it is then" you know logic or something. Then again, I used the L word, Logic, that word that typically is not applicable to anything related to MWO.

To be pendantic, this is not a balancing pass but a normalization pass on the quirks. PGI also mentioned that these quirk nerfs are also in anticipation of the new tech that is coming out. Putting the nerfs in now gives PGI a better idea of how the new tech will fit in. The other alternative is to release the new tech AND quirk nerfs at the same time which is not that much better than what they are doing now.