29 replies to this topic

[Damnedtroll]

Aeries, on 01 May 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I have played BT/MW games for nearly 30 years, so yes, I am familiar with lore. This is not a lore game. Online games have to revolve around some semblance of balance, especially between two apposing sides. As it stands now ~60 - 75% of mechs in QP are clan and from what I have read are used exclusively in competitive, there is a reason for that.

yep clan mech are better and it's what i say... they work to nerf them because of that, it's just that maybe nerfing is not the solution. We use ''Battlevalue'' on board game to have fair match, they use tier and tonnage in MWO. Maybe sorting out a ''Battle value'' in MWO would be better and funnier than nerfing... But you will see a hellbringer against an Atlas or an Artic cheeta against a Cataphract. Realy hard to do in Quick play, maybe impossible in Faction.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 01 May 2017 - 06:20 AM.

[Bud Crue]

MadBadger, on 01 May 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

There is also nothing at all preventing them from re-quirking IS mechs later should people determine they aren't worth playing and actually stop playing/buying them.

IMO it would be unwise in the extreme to sell mechs off before the changeover, but that is your decision to make. Just don't make it based on the heated, often fact-free opinions you find in the forum.

I do love this reasoning.

Because PGI might, at some point, maybe will decide to repair what they have damaged with the nerfs, it is perfectly fine to nerf them now.

Here is a fact: most of the IS mechs are not played competitively because competitive players recognize that they are crap relative to the clan meta. Low hard points, low numbers of hard points, ISXL and other factors make this axiomatic. Quirks are supposed to incentivize their play despite their obvious inferiority. Now nerfing a crap mech, that is not played in its current state even by a mere "5%, 10%, or occasionally 15%" is not somehow going to make these mechs any more "worth playing" than they are now. They are being made objectively worse relative to their peers.

While PGI can certainly correct this situation after the fact, after the fact may be too late. Moreover, they have not addressed many of the worst IS mechs, and even those that they have (e.g. the Victor) it took them several years to do so,and what they did do for them was/is almost always insufficient (see the current list of top meta mechs).

The solution is simple: leave the bad mechs and their quirks alone or...oh, I don't know...maybe...hmm, lets see...buff them? Maybe then people would actually play them? Just a thought that is somehow mindbogglingly beyond PGI's and seemingly much of this communities understanding.

[oldradagast]

Bud Crue, on 01 May 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

I do love this reasoning.

Because PGI might, at some point, maybe will decide to repair what they have damaged with the nerfs, it is perfectly fine to nerf them now.

And PGI has such a wonderful record of quickly fixing balance issues, right?

Take at a look at Faction Warfare - a format designed to slaughter "stupid noobs and casuals," but it gets worse; what group of jokers thought that adding a nuke to it would make it more fun? Oh, and then leaving that nuke in its overpowered, broken state for months as the last of the FP queue drained out.

How about that Pinpoint skill? Totally useless for 4+ years and the crowning achievement in a "placeholder" skill system that is still around 5 years after beta and about to be replaced with something WORSE?!

Then, there's the Victor's missile tubes, fixed years too late, and a host of other issues. Anyone who thinks PGI has the will, skills, or even the humility to fix this skill maze mess after it goes live and trashes game balance is kidding themselves and clearly not at all familiar with the company's long history of striving to achieve mediocrity months behind schedule.

Edited by oldradagast, 01 May 2017 - 02:56 PM.

[Insanity09]

I played IS when i joined the game because I find the Lore-based ideas of "genetic superiority" and class driven cultures to be reprehensible.

But now, boy do I wish I'd just spent more on clan mechs, instead a little here and there just so i could compare.

Mind you, I'm more of a close range brawler than a longer range fighter, but I still excel (by comparison) with clan mechs; they are vastly easier to do well with than IS.

With the upcoming changes? I will honestly be using much of the refunded cash to buy more clan mechs, and using the GSP to skill them up. I will sob in a corner, playing less for a while, hoping that a- the balance isn't screwed as badly as I expect, and b- (hah!) PGI fixes it soon.

There are other games out there, and while they might not partake of a beloved franchise, at least they won't be grinding my spirit to dust. I'll give it a few months, then...

Edited by Insanity09, 05 May 2017 - 05:05 PM.

[R Valentine]

Don't worry. I'm sure the Tukayyid 3 even will vindicate PGI's decision to nerf IS quirks. Right?

[Livaria]

We will see once Tukayyid ends. This should be a good, yet final field test as to the performance of clan mechs. I'm sure PGI is willing to take notes. Meanwhile I'm wanting to bring an important question back to the table. Is Clan Laser Vomit too powerful?

I have my suspicions Clan lasers *are* too powerful. Yet, people are still quite divided on the issue of whether or not Clan laser weapons need to have a damage rollback. A damage reduction is actually *very* easy to do and is probably the most straightforward method. However, I can't speak for everyone.

I will link you guys to one of my previous topics. And I will let you guys be the judge.
https://mwomercs.com...t-too-powerful/

Edited by Livaria, 05 May 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[David Sumner]

Taxxian, on 30 April 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

...
Yes many IS Mechs seem to loose more than they win, but the same is true for some Clan Mechs.
...

Actually, all that is largely irrelevant.
The question is, in each weight class, is there one side with the best one or two mechs.
If the answer is the same side in each weight class, that side wins.

Because, you know, meta.

Damnedtroll, on 01 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

yep clan mech are better and it's what i say... they work to nerf them because of that, it's just that maybe nerfing is not the solution. We use ''Battlevalue'' on board game to have fair match, they use tier and tonnage in MWO. Maybe sorting out a ''Battle value'' in MWO would be better and funnier than nerfing... But you will see a hellbringer against an Atlas or an Artic cheeta against a Cataphract. Realy hard to do in Quick play, maybe impossible in Faction.

Or, god forbid:
Not let the clans have mercs, and make them BID forces for it?

[testhero]

Don't sell off the IS Mechs you have bought.
As the meta resolves itself some of them might still work out great and the resale value is rubbish
Strip the chassis using the Strip mech tool in the select mech page In the Mech Stats box to the bottom right.
Sell off the surplus weapons keeping a very few of the best IS weapons you favor (LPL etc)
If you had more experience you would sell off many engines But with only two months experience just hold onto the engines
Take your C-Bills and buy those Clam Mechs. Try the trials first
With your greater C-Bill winnings you will be able to refit any of the mothballed IS frames you want to restore.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Having been playing my Battlemasters a lot lately along with other laser vomit inner sphere mechs. I have about the same stats on it already as my Marauder IICs even though I just elited and mastered it last night so I expect those to improve. The biggest reasons clans won this recent event is the majority of good units went clan. it's pretty obvious that if they won the first day they would win all 7. Now my group is few in number. So obvious were in the queue with all the pugs. most of the time we would be matched up against a large group usually a 10-12 man and I believe I lost more matches in this faction play than we won playing clans. Faction mode is based around good units pug stomping with fine tuned machines. Most of the inner sphere queue doesn't have a good grasp on high performing mechs. just like quick match. If you bring a heavy mech with 2 lrm 15s and 3 or 4 medium lasers you aren't bringing enough weaponry and high alpha to field. It just so happens I see many Catapults and archers configured like than rather than clan mechs like the line backer (saw one built like that tonight shuddered quite a bit) because people have enough savvy not to build it that poorly. New players drawn to inner sphere mechs with gorilla arms and poor hardpoint configurations/placement are being misguided. unless they are quirked to god mode there is nothing that will make some of these mechs good. When it comes to meta mechs and oh so scary clans even the Timberwolf isn't even something I see piloted well anymore. All night in my last play session piloting a 6 erll or pulse vomit Battlemaster they were just things that were fun to shoot at not a threat at all. Most of the pilots had lrms or clearly were not veterans of the game. If you bring lrms make a full commit to indirect fire or pilot of few choice hybrids that field a nice amount of back up lasers. Anything under two lrm 20s or 45 lrms and less is simply a waste of hardpoints and tonnage. Under 10 tons of ammo is unacceptable as well for a main weapon either even after this upcoming skill tree patch where pretty much everyone will have radar derp. When you could be doing real dps with front loaded long range or brawling weaponry. My main missile boat when I feel like running it averages 626dmg a match both wins and losses combined. Even my old IS missile boat the STK-3H has similar win/loss and I did a considerable amount more of screwing around on and getting caught by lights or locked out by ecm. It's still competitive due to the nature of AMS. The truth is I only stopped playing my Jagers is because it doesnt have enough space to bring enough ammo to chew through an enemy team. first it went from 8v8 to 12.12 then structure and armor quirks were invented. Then Acs were nerfed and brought back up a bit with quirks. You better believe Im going to hit both those ammo tree nodes. If you aren't prepared to do 1500+ damage in a match with your main weapons you really aren't there to carry your pug. What Im really looking for is the light engine for IS. That should fully bring I.S in line but it would really be amazing to have actual double heat sinks that didn't take 3 structure slots. I.S is slot starved with Endo taking 14 and not being allowed to even take advantage of certain mechanics like shoving heat sinks in legs. Otherwise they are fine. These mechs have been getting Loads of Free tonnage from quirks such as heat generation reduction in places clans would have to spend their extra space and tonnage on heatsinks for their long duration, hot lasers. Who wins is always who has won since this game came out. Either bring high hardpoints or poptart. Bring meta or outplay the builds. There is nothing that is going to make the vast majority of pugs in crap mechs like the catapult or centurion good short of atlas level armor. They simply can't field Coordinated alpha firepower like the hunchbacks and other actual threats in that range like srm brawlers etc. They just make annoying zombies and I consider them to be almost a person down when spotted in a pug. One of the catapults after being quirked to hell could be mildly decent though.

[Logan812]

Pre-FedCom Civil War Inner Sphere mechs are inferior to Clan mechs? What is this, Battletech/MechWarrior? Oh, wait...