61 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

Lupis Volk, on 29 April 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

If people put as much energy, effort and soul as they do with this "chicken littleing" into oh i don't know coming up with idea or ways to make the tree better. But nooo only a small few are doing that.

Except you know, people have.

And PGI flat out rejected those ideas because they were linear.

Russ clearly has some deep seated aversion to things making sense in this game.

[JC Daxion]

Alan Davion, on 29 April 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

And yet there are mechs out there, specifically IS mechs, that only have one type of weapon hard point. Clan mechs can swap around and get one type of weapon hard point thanks to omnipods, and those mechs are going to be made even more powerful thanks to some of the additions being made in the skill web system.

IS mechs that have only one type of weapon hard point, such as the examples I cited, Commando Death's Knell, all the Wolfhounds, many of the Grasshoppers, one of the Warhammers and a couple Marauders, these mechs will severely underperform in the new system thanks to having to waste points in ballistic or missiles when they have access to none of those weapon hard points.

Mechs like those need to be taken into account, and it seems clear PGI has not taken them into account.

Please explain to me how Clan mechs with one weapon type get much more powerful, But IS mechs with one weapon get weaker...


I am sorry but i can't follow your logic at all on this. It is the whole point that one weapon type mechs, need to skink a bit more points if you want every cooldown/range ext..

But you certainly don't need to take those nodes.. You can very easily stick with energy only, Or what ever. Besides you are not wasting a ton of nodes anyway.. You can often add 3 nodes you don't need to pick up maybe 4-5 more.


And yes, I play commando's, wolfhounds, Crabs and many other energy boats.. along with lots of IS mixed builds. I play IS far more than Clans anyway. I don't see this as a huge issue. I noticed many of my builds i was putting about 20-30 weapon nodes in, it didn't mater if it was a mixed build, or a single weapon build to me that is called balance

[Bishop Steiner]

Alan Davion, on 29 April 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

Except you know, people have.

And PGI flat out rejected those ideas because they were linear.

Russ clearly has some deep seated aversion to things making sense in this game.

the very fact that they were linear, and thus, easy to minmax means they actually weren't "better" for the goal, which is to make minmaxing less a thing.

[Mystere]

Lukoi Banacek, on 29 April 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

It wasn't because the community showed examples from other games on exactly why it was dangerous to introduce. To their credit, PGI listened and made 3PV functional but so far from optimal that you rarely if ever see it's "negative" potential utilized in games against seasoned players.

3PV had the potential to completely flip this game on its head too, which is why the backlash was massive, vocal and persistent. PGI listened and frankly, we got a "fair" implementation of 3PV and folks have long since moved on from it (minus still making jokes about their PR skills as they consistently promised to never introduce 3PV and then did).

Hopefully PGI is listening now. And the ST+ isn't slated to patch in until....mid May? So hopefully there's time for quality fixes here. whined like crybabies.

FTFY.

3PV could have been an integral part of Information Warfare. Instead we got an almost useless implementation.

"Fair" implementation my butt.

Mcgral18, on 29 April 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

3rd person was gimped from the start
Thankfully
That was because of outrage

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2017 - 03:30 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

JC Daxion, on 29 April 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

And if you do that, you just give extra points to single weapon boats.. NOT a good idea. If you can get every single global weapon node with out investing extra.. any one that has more than one weapon type, just spend Extra points. That is NOT a good idea/design for balance.

No, you dont. You continue to gate against hyperspecialization by putting the deep spec nodes behind stuff that folks have to get through that still includes an ancillary benefit. They managed to do that on the mobility and ops tree, so its definitely doable with firepower.

Neither version of the tree stops boating atm and nothing ever will. You cannot prevent boating with these techniques. What you can do is open up incentives that encourage other builds.

Removing requirements to take absolutely useless nodes would be great for the tree and is totally doable while leaving gateways and progressive cost in place. AMS, Missile, ammo nodes being forced sunk costs on mechs that have none of tbose things involved are unneccesarry gates with no ancillary benefit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 29 April 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

FTFY.

3PV could have been an integral part of Information Warfare. Instead we got an almost useless implementation.

"Fair" implementation my butt.



See above.

Outrage on 3pV I got no issues with.

Anytime someone spend real money on a boldly stated and in print promise "NO 3PV" I have no issue with anyone taking affront to it being forced upon them.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mystere, on 29 April 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

FTFY.

3PV could have been an integral part of Information Warfare. Instead we got an almost useless implementation.
See above.

See, you seem to think disagreeing with you on whether 3PV should be in game is whining. I dont think 3PV should be ingame because I dont believe its needed for information warfare or in any way a contributor to immersion.

Thats not whining, thats a reasonae opinion and clearly PGI in the end at least partially agreed. If anything, maybe they did it to accommodate those insisting on it in spite it being one of their original core concepts to not introduce it because it made the game more arcade-ish.

[Mystere]

Lukoi Banacek, on 29 April 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

See, you seem to think disagreeing with you on whether 3PV should be in game is whining. I dont think 3PV should be ingame because I dont believe its needed for information warfare or in any way a contributor to immersion.

I was referring to the loud incessant whining that went on when 3PV was announced, It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me. <shrugs>

Lukoi Banacek, on 29 April 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Thats not whining, thats a reasonae opinion and clearly PGI in the end at least partially agreed. If anything, maybe they did it to accommodate those insisting on it in spite it being one of their original core concepts to not introduce it because it made the game more arcade-ish.

Methinks most people whining had only their very limited and very arcadish version of 3PV in mind. <shrugs again>

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

The whining as you characterize it, was a significant portion (the clear majority if memory serves) playerbase loudly voicing their displeasure with the concept. That you consider that whining well..... <shrugs>

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 April 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

Outrage on 3pV I got no issues with.

Anytime someone spend real money on a boldly stated and in print promise "NO 3PV" I have no issue with anyone taking affront to it being forced upon them.

While I can get over "broken promises" if what was done actually made things better. But alas, the rest is history.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 29 April 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

While I can get over "broken promises" if what was done actually made things better. But alas, the rest is history.

except it didn't, wasn't and while it wasn't the gamebreaker many feared, it was done purely in a misguided attempt to improve accessibility.

[Yellonet]

Hamerclone, on 29 April 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

If you don't like the way PGI is developing the game, Cancel your prepacks! they are in this for the money! if that does not get their attention, then they are even bigger fools then they appear to be!

QQ more? Looks from your post history that whining is all you do.
How about gtfo and find a game that you like instead?

[Tordin]

Doomsaying now again.. sigh..

Ops! I kinda enjoy the game, seems I have ordered another mechpack in spite.
Oh dear Im such a stupid whale ( I prefer Orca, I like the meat of fallen white and black knights hence the orcas coloration!)

Sure the skill tree could be more streamlined and nerfs could be applied in general to clan skill tree and buffs to is skill tree. That or on individual mech basis on bothsides so that underperformers get help and overperformers none at all.
Too much clicking? Really.. REALLY? First world problems, yeah I use that argument.

[Yellonet]

Tordin, on 29 April 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Doomsaying now again.. sigh..

Ops! I kinda enjoy the game, seems I have ordered another mechpack in spite.
Oh dear Im such a stupid whale ( I prefer Orca, I like the meat of fallen white and black knights hence the orcas coloration!)

Sure the skill tree could be more streamlined and nerfs could be applied in general to clan skill tree and buffs to is skill tree. That or on individual mech basis on bothsides so that underperformers get help and overperformers none at all.
Too much clicking? Really.. REALLY? First world problems, yeah I use that argument.

Not even a first world problem mate... more like a spoiled, lazy, entitled brat problem.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yellonet, on 29 April 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

Not even a first world problem mate... more like a spoiled, lazy, entitled brat problem.

like he said... first world problem...

(third world folks like me can't afford to be spoiled, lazy and entitled!)

[draiocht]

[mod]As the posted topic is unconstructive to MechWarrior Online,
this thread has been moved to Kaetetôã.

Please post constructively,
and relevant to the sub-forum.
Thank you.[/mod]

[Archer Magnus]

They are a business with people to pay, people who need to make a living.

Personally, I think PGI should run more Polls. It must be hard gathering info from the forum.

Speaking of that:
1. I want to transfer XL from mechs I sold (yes, for MC)
2. Bonus, lump XLP for chassis, not variant

[Cy Mitchell]

Lukoi Banacek, on 29 April 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Neither version of the tree stops boating atm and nothing ever will. You cannot prevent boating with these techniques. What you can do is open up incentives that encourage other builds.

The goal was never to stop boating. Hell, some Mechs have to be boats by design or are primarily boats. The Nova, for example, is primarily an energy boat. It was designed that way and meant to be played that way.

The goal was to limit the superiority of boating one weapon type over mixed builds. While far from perfect, the weapon tree does manage to do that to a certain extent. Mixing in all weapon times and mingling in things like Cooldown, range and heat generation throughout the tree allows you to enhance more than one weapon type as you work your way through a primary tree. For example, I run a Mech with 2 cUAC5s and 4 Medium lasers. As I work my way down the tree and pick- up Jam reduction nodes, I also pick up range and cooldown nodes with enhance the laser performance of my build.

It is not tidy but the tree does accomplish its mission better than the current tree and better than the linear trees that I have seen discussed IMO.

[nitra]

Tordin, on 29 April 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Doomsaying now again.. sigh..

Ops! I kinda enjoy the game, seems I have ordered another mechpack in spite.
Oh dear Im such a stupid whale ( I prefer Orca, I like the meat of fallen white and black knights hence the orcas coloration!)

Sure the skill tree could be more streamlined and nerfs could be applied in general to clan skill tree and buffs to is skill tree. That or on individual mech basis on bothsides so that underperformers get help and overperformers none at all.
Too much clicking? Really.. REALLY? First world problems, yeah I use that argument.

Yes Klicking DAmnit im an Old Gamer it Hurts to click . so thats why i use macro recording key streaming and deep learning software to play my games for me !! and every time they add a new mech or change something i have to reupdate every damn thing to work with the changes. which requires MOAR Klicking !!

and let em tell you sumthing sonie boyee AGE aint no first world problem, wont be to much sooner before you will be trying to mash all teh buttons wondering why it be so damned hard. thats ok though maybe you can git one of yer grand kiddies to play the games for ya and you can reminisce about the good old days. slanging the uranium with your new mech pack and what a bad *** you were.. dem days were teh days..

[Cy Mitchell]

nitra, on 29 April 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Yes Klicking DAmnit im an Old Gamer it Hurts to click . so thats why i use macro recording key streaming and deep learning software to play my games for me !! and every time they add a new mech or change something i have to reupdate every damn thing to work with the changes. which requires MOAR Klicking !!

and let em tell you sumthing sonie boyee AGE aint no first world problem, wont be to much sooner before you will be trying to mash all teh buttons wondering why it be so damned hard. thats ok though maybe you can git one of yer grand kiddies to play the games for ya and you can reminisce about the good old days. slanging the uranium with your new mech pack and what a bad *** you were.. dem days were teh days..

I am 63 and have arthritis. Do you have any years on me? Just curious.