44 replies to this topic

[BigScwerl]

Does anyone else thing that the upcoming drop of futuretech will F&%$ things up royally?

Further Clan Weapon Nerfs with PTS, making modded Clan weapons and tech weaker than than IS in the categories of Cooldown and Laser Duration.

Max Heat gen quirk is getting nerfed across the board from 15% to 8%....WHY?

No word on max heat capacity. This could really nerf Clan Mechs that tend to run hotter.

Then look at the New Tech dropping. I don't care weather it is IS or Clan tech, I am concerned with the balance here. All Merc Units are going to go IS for the new tech and it is going to screw everybody.

Also, Why doesn't clan get more tech also?

Does Clan Tech Really need ANOTHER round of nerfs?

Don't play the lore card on this one, I love it also, but we all know it has nothing to do with MWO.

Thanks for reading - Note that While this is a Clan Account, I'm no stranger to playing IS. I'm concerned about the WHOLE GAME here, this is not about partisan party politics.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Does anyone else thing that the upcoming drop of futuretech will F&%$ things up royally?

Further Clan Weapon Nerfs with PTS, making modded Clan weapons and tech weaker than than IS in the categories of Cooldown and Laser Duration.

Max Heat gen quirk is getting nerfed across the board from 15% to 8%....WHY?

No word on max heat capacity. This could really nerf Clan Mechs that tend to run hotter.

Then look at the New Tech dropping. I don't care weather it is IS or Clan tech, I am concerned with the balance here. All Merc Units are going to go IS for the new tech and it is going to screw everybody.

Also, Why doesn't clan get more tech also?

Does Clan Tech Really need ANOTHER round of nerfs?

Don't play the lore card on this one, I love it also, but we all know it has nothing to do with MWO.

Thanks for reading - Note that While this is a Clan Account, I'm no stranger to playing IS. I'm concerned about the WHOLE GAME here, this is not about partisan party politics.

The PTS across the board is hitting IS mechs harder than clan mechs as the majority of IS mechs are losing some or all of their offensive quirks.

Look at the bright side, Clams get to be OP at least until the new tech drops!

[BigScwerl]

Jaybles, on 28 April 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

The PTS across the board is hitting IS mechs harder than clan mechs as the majority of IS mechs are losing some or all of their offensive quirks.

Look at the bright side, Clams get to be OP at least until the new tech drops!

I thought that ALL mechs were losing ALL Quirks?

[Lovas]

Not just IS weapon quirks going away - the accel/decel will hurt the IS more I think. PGI has said that they are going to replace those quirks and put them into the baseline mechs - but they are not doing it as it currently is. e.g. the WHM-6D has a 35% accel/decel quirk where the rest of the warhammers have a 10% quirk. In the new PTS the WHM-6D has the same accel/decel as the other WHM's. Either they are fat fingering the values again like the last PTS, or IS is gonna get a hell of a lot slower.

You can't look at it as just clans getting nerfed - everything is getting nerfed globally. The new tech is not going to be the savior to the IS, some of it will be fun but will not overpower the clans like the clans have been overpowering the IS for quite a while. Most good IS mechs can't replace their XL with the new LFE without going down firepower wise.

There is so much going on that no one can tell what will happen. We are not getting little changes here and there, everything is changing. I for one have almost given up trying to figure everything out.

**EDIT** The only nerf to clans might be most Merc units might go IS for awhile to play with the new tech - then only clan loyalist will be available to protect their borders.

Edited by Lovas, 28 April 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

I thought that ALL mechs were losing ALL Quirks?

Nope.

[BigScwerl]

Please do not make this a rant about Clans being OP. They are not, Balance has much less to do with tech. This is what all the veterans say and its the truth.

I'm going to point out that this IS NOT about partisan party politics. Major Game changing mechanics are about to drop on both sides. If we thought balance was an issue now, it is about to get a lot worse.

[Lovas]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'm going to point out that this IS NOT about partisan party politics.

Well, you fooled me with the title of this thread and only writing about one side.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

Please do not make this a rant about Clans being OP. They are not, Balance has much less to do with tech. This is what all the veterans say and its the truth.

I'm going to point out that this IS NOT about partisan party politics. Major Game changing mechanics are about to drop on both sides. If we thought balance was an issue now, it is about to get a lot worse.

There is no doubt that the current iteration of the PTS is widening the gap between the haves and have nots of battlmechs. So yes overall game balance will suffer. But since this is the FP forum I thought you were talking about IS vs Clan blance.

And In that regard Think of it like this. clan mech A is at a 90 and IS mech B is at a 85. Both lose 20 points from the new PTS. So now clan mech A is at 70 and IS mech B is at 65. But IS mech B is losing some quirks so it drops to 60. Now both can skill back 15. Which leaves us with clan mech A being at 85 and IS mech B being at 75. Collectively they both got nerfed but the IS mech suffered more because of the quirk loss, which is most likely being done in preparation for the new tech. The question is.. will the new tech close that 10 point gap or will it only close it by 5 points and then we're back to Clans just having that slight edge with some chassis.

Edited by Jaybles, 28 April 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

PGI is cornering themselves where they will have to do negative quirks on clan mechs again, reducing skill node values on particularly mechs (negative quirks by another name), or completely nerfing the clan skill tree (which is worse than negative quirks as a blanket nerf will make clan mechs unplayable).

I don't think the new tech will fix balance issues. With PGI's track record on "balance" the new tech will be underpowered or overpowered for IS.

PGI will obviously try to balance with drop weight tonnage like tards again.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 28 April 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[Nightmare1]

I'm fine with global nerfs since that means everything is nerfed proportionally. It's the targeted nerfs that bug me, since PGI tends to do more unbalancing with them than balancing.

Disclaimer: The following example is for the sake of argument and not an actual recommendation! A big number is used to make a point, and not as an actual recommendation!

Case in point, let's say we globally nerf all weapon heat generation so that all weapons generate an additional 50% heat. That's 50% for every weapon, so the weapon balance is actually maintained. The effect is that your Mech is hotter and you have to fire over longer intervals or more slowly, but the individual weapon systems and classes are actually unaffected compared to each other individual weapon or class. Everyone's mad, but they get over it because they realize that every weapon, person, and Mech is affected as equally as any other one.

Now, let's say that we decide to make ballistics 50% hotter. Suddenly, ballistics under-perform compared to energy and missiles, making PGI scratch its nogging in confusion. The community screams bloody murder, so PGI buffs ballistics back up by 30%, then sets out on a months-long quest to individually quirk "under-performing" Mechs, rather than fixing the weapon systems themselves. The game becomes more damaged and everyone's mad.

Now, that's not to say that individual nerfs should never be used; sometimes they are necessary if a weapon really is over-performing. However, PGI generally has trouble getting those right.

TL,DR: Get over it, OP. The Global Nerfs aren't personal and will probably lead to higher TTK, which is something that the community has begged for in the past. The targeted nerfs are definitely cause for concern, but there's really no way to know how they will affect the game since we don't have Civil War Tech yet. Relax, drink some beer, play, and don't rage post again in the future.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I haven't studied it extensively, but the overall impression I have heard is that skill tree (and quirk reductions) will hurt the IS more (even if we get hurt the IS gets hurt more) and that the new tech will help the IS more. I could well be wrong though.

Basically, PGI is changing so much over a short time frame, that they are basically rolling a hand grenade into the "balance room" with us all in there and seeing what happens.

Skill tree is dropping before the new tech, so we will have an early impression on that. Civil war tech will just change it all again. If one side ends up more advantaged by skill tree PGI might not even address it until they know what new tech does to balance. Could be a crazy few months either way.

[Nightmare1]

Jaybles, on 28 April 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

There is no doubt that the current iteration of the PTS is widening the gap between the haves and have nots of battlmechs. So yes overall game balance will suffer. But since this is the FP forum I thought you were talking about IS vs Clan blance.

And In that regard Think of it like this. clan mech A is at a 90 and IS mech B is at a 85. Both lose 20 points from the new PTS. So now clan mech A is at 70 and IS mech B is at 65. But IS mech B is losing some quirks so it drops to 60. Now both can skill back 15. Which leaves us with clan mech A being at 85 and IS mech B being at 75. Collectively they both got nerfed but the IS mech suffered more because of the quirk loss, which is most likely being done in preparation for the new tech. The question is.. will the new tech close that 10 point gap or will it only close it by 5 points and then we're back to Clans just having that slight edge with some chassis.

My understanding is that PGI is leaving most of the IS hitpoint quirks in place, which can be further buffed by the skill tree. I think what we will see instead is that A ~ B, but that A is a high-damage glass cannon, while B is a crazy tough bullet-sponge.

Now, I do think that A > B is possible with certain chassis, but I don't think it will be across the board anymore. I think that particular Clan Omnis will be buffed by the skill tree, simply because they already had few to no quirks. This means that the quirk removal doesn't really hurt them.

Edited by Nightmare1, 28 April 2017 - 09:48 AM.

[BigScwerl]

Nightmare1, on 28 April 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Relax, drink some beer, play, and don't rage post again in the future.

@ TL DR - Why Comment if you haven't taken the time to be a part of the conversation? Why do you expect others to read your posts if you don't read theirs? I hope you're not inferring that this is a Rage Post. Because it certainly was not intended to be such.

I am hoping that everyone recognizes how massive a change this will be, I like Marquis' "Hand Grenade" metaphor. That's what it feels like. Kinda like PGI saying: "We're having trouble keeping the wheels on this car, I guess its time to design a new toaster"

I'm not opposed to new tech or timeline advances, but we need to recognize that with PGI's history of balance issues, there is no way this will help from the balance standpoint.

Edited by BigScwerl, 28 April 2017 - 09:59 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Lovas, on 28 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Not just IS weapon quirks going away - the accel/decel will hurt the IS more I think. PGI has said that they are going to replace those quirks and put them into the baseline mechs - but they are not doing it as it currently is. e.g. the WHM-6D has a 35% accel/decel quirk where the rest of the warhammers have a 10% quirk. In the new PTS the WHM-6D has the same accel/decel as the other WHM's. Either they are fat fingering the values again like the last PTS, or IS is gonna get a hell of a lot slower.

You can't look at it as just clans getting nerfed - everything is getting nerfed globally. The new tech is not going to be the savior to the IS, some of it will be fun but will not overpower the clans like the clans have been overpowering the IS for quite a while. Most good IS mechs can't replace their XL with the new LFE without going down firepower wise.

There is so much going on that no one can tell what will happen. We are not getting little changes here and there, everything is changing. I for one have almost given up trying to figure everything out.

**EDIT** The only nerf to clans might be most Merc units might go IS for awhile to play with the new tech - then only clan loyalist will be available to protect their borders.

LFE is flat out inferior to CXL. The biggest tech disparity in the game.

Weapon quirks to cooldown and heat gen are almost universally gone, which hits the IS the hardest.

Mobility quirks are largely gone, again. Hits IS the hardest.

ATM, which Clans get, is the best performer (unless PGI does something nutty) of all the new weapons tech.

We don't know about the weapons, there's plenty of room for PGI to screw it up. None of it is comparable stat-wise to Clan versions.

Clans will always have better cooling because CDHS is 33% smaller than IS DHS. Put more DHS in.

The real issue is the more or less elimination of the bulk of IS chassis from anything like viability. The reason quirks were created to begin with.

[Grus]

My reaction from the discussion is this. After skill tree drops don't spend anything in it instill New tech drops and watch the meta make a hard right turn. No point in dropping a ton of exp and credits into a mach that my change in the extreme the month after.

[Lovas]

I completely agree Mischief. It makes me laugh when folks like the op scream "they are touching my stuff" and fail to look at what is being done to everything.

Then he has the gaul to say he was trying to say he meant everybody lol.

[Fuerchtenichts]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

ATM, which Clans get, is the best performer (unless PGI does something nutty) of all the new weapons tech.

Need some tissues?

The only thing we have seen up till know is some artwork and short descriptions. No one (and I fear really NO ONE) knows any specific facts on the final weapon specifications. So, lets wait for the new skill tree and the new tech wave afterwards.

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 28 April 2017 - 12:57 PM.

[Willard Phule]

For what it's worth, it truly does appear that the IS is being favored once again. Primarily because they have been completely unable to provide the utility that is SUPPOSED to make a lot of our stuff work properly.

Whatever happened to the whole "swappable ammo" thing? The "Clan AC," which shoots the same as the UAC (so there's no sense in even bothering to buy it) was supposed to be a "placeholder" until they could figure out how to program swappable ammo. Nope. Shitcanned.

The ATM system is SUPPOSED to be able to use different types of ammo. Instead, we get something the HSR is going to implode over. Cool. And typical.

They stopped the clock at 3067. Why not 3069 when RACs are available to both sides? Makes you wonder.

[MischiefSC]

Fuerchtenichts, on 28 April 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Need some tissues?

The only thing we have seen up till know is some artwork and short descriptions. No one (and I fear really NO ONE) knows any specific facts on the final weapon specifications. So, lets wait for the new skill tree and the new tech wave afterwards.

See the faction affiliation next to my name?

In terms of TT stats and the *likely* implementation, ATMs should be excellent. Which is great - I'd rather Clan pugs take them (in concept) than LRMs.

Willard Phule, on 28 April 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

For what it's worth, it truly does appear that the IS is being favored once again. Primarily because they have been completely unable to provide the utility that is SUPPOSED to make a lot of our stuff work properly.

Whatever happened to the whole "swappable ammo" thing? The "Clan AC," which shoots the same as the UAC (so there's no sense in even bothering to buy it) was supposed to be a "placeholder" until they could figure out how to program swappable ammo. Nope. Shitcanned.

The ATM system is SUPPOSED to be able to use different types of ammo. Instead, we get something the HSR is going to implode over. Cool. And typical.

They stopped the clock at 3067. Why not 3069 when RACs are available to both sides? Makes you wonder.

Because Clan tech is already flat out superior to IS tech overall (largely thanks to CXL, which LFE does nothing about) and if RACs are amazing it'll even that up.

Well, in a PGI balance sense. Which is to say not balanced, but more broken stuff that makes everything sorta broken in similar ways and so kinda sorta balanced in a not really sense.

[Lovas]

We all have in our head what RACS are like, but what is PGI's vision??

PGI and RACS...call me cynical but with PGI's game design technique I picture them only having them fire at the same rate of current UAC's with a warm up and cool down timer - "see guys! We only have to press the button once now! We gave you uber weapon!"