33 replies to this topic

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

TWIAFU, on 02 May 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

I was replying to a post that stated that running down the clock is legit, while it is NOT, prior to the posts edit.

The Edit of the Post changed nothing and was 30.04.2017 11:25 AM your post was 01.05.2017 02:05 PM (my time) -> 26 hours (even my second post and its last edit was ~22 hours prior to your statement)
So please restrain from false claims the edit would have changed anything.

Maybe you should read the first post again and try to understand its meaning this time.
It helps if one doenst jump on catch phrases like "running down the clock" while doing so.

Edited by Dark Wooki33 IIC, 02 May 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[Leone]

Aggression wins games. Letting your enemy dictate the terms of the fight loses games.

~Leone.

[Naglinator]

I have seen the IS do this tactic often as well. So surely you mean "teams" and not necessarily "clans" are running down the timer?

[Vxheous]

Leone, on 02 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

Aggression wins games. Letting your enemy dictate the terms of the fight loses games.

~Leone.

I would take it one step further and say exploiting the enemy's weakness wins games, whether that be aggression against a less coordinated team, to setting up appropriately to receive a brawl push by making a them cross 600m+ of open ground to get to you. A mid-range focused clan deck, regardless of how aggressive would be foolhardy to charge into a 12 Atlas stack.

[justcallme A S H]

+1

Outright aggression in the wrong area/direction = bad things can happen.

Assess each game as it falls.

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 May 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

I would take it one step further and say exploiting the enemy's weakness wins games, whether that be aggression against a less coordinated team, to setting up appropriately to receive a brawl push by making a them cross 600m+ of open ground to get to you. A mid-range focused clan deck, regardless of how aggressive would be foolhardy to charge into a 12 Atlas stack.

You don't charge the middle of them. Flank to an edge and push in.

You set a firing line to receive a push or the like but it's as a prelude to a push. The fundamental problem with setting a static line is that you give the opportunity to the other team to do something other than what you want. If you're going to set a line, make it a mobile one.

If you're not moving either up or back or to the side and the other team is then you're likely going to end up in a bad situation if you're against a good, well coordinated team. If you're not then, well, the only real required strat is 'don't potato'.

I say this with having charged a stack of 9 Atlases and a couple BLRs and some poor silly ******* in a LRM Orion on Caustic earlier tonight. Exposed ourselves a bit to draw the charge, then rolled right into their flank and demolished them in detail, 2s and 3s against 8 or 9. We absolutely pushed right into them; many went past them, forcing them to turn or have exposed backs, etc.

Range is a very situational advantage. Mobility is always useful if it is always in use and it's very difficult to take away from someone.

The ability to soak a ton of damage due to CXLs is another huge, huge advantage. If I push into a firing line and can survive your teams first alpha.... Most of you are going to burn a second one to finish me off. You're now 75% to heat cap and my teammates are closer to 25% and moving forward faster than you can back up. Sure, I die with ~50 damage however I've helped ensure the success of my teammates and controlled the focus and attention of the other team. I can say with certainty how the rest of that wave is going to go.

[Karl Marlow]

Sunstruck, on 30 April 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

I was in a match where the clans went and hid in a corner for about 8 mins, running down the clock so that the fight would only allow say 3 waves of mechs to really participate.

They lost anyway but what it does is prevent the Inner Sphere from using their extra tonnage advantage towards the end of the game.

I guess they were trying to gain a kill lead right as the clock runs down to win.

That strategy does not negate the inner sphere tonnage crutch.

Clans bring 62.5 tons per wave
Inner sphere brings 66.25 per wave.

If you only fight 3 waves you still have the tonnage advantage.

[justcallme A S H]

Yes but Clan ran counter those 6T while the IS is on approach due to the range advantage... Provided you actually know how to use it. Hence why IRAN and other teams are doing it.

Problem is they can't actually trade properly, and lose because of it.

[Kubernetes]

The tonnage differential seems fair considering that the bread-and-butter Clan FW mechs run about 5 tons lighter than their IS equivalents. Clans lean a lot on their 65-tonner Ebon Jags and Hellbringers, IS brings 70-ton Warhammers and Grasshoppers. In the Medium class the Clan 50 tonners predominate, whereas 55 tons is where it's at for IS. I think the one imbalance is that the Clans don't have an 80 tonner that can match a Battlemaster.

I actually wouldn't mind a minor tweak to make the differential 20 tons so that the IS gets a flat 5 tons per drop advantage.

Edited by Kubernetes, 03 May 2017 - 10:14 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I've seen IS also use this tactic, they would hide behind a rock and force the clanners to come towards them so that they may start a brawl and negate any advantages clanners had at range.

Can't say it was really worth it, even if you win doing it you take 2 times as long to win that match and only take out half the waves, so you're making 4 times less cbills per minute and playing a more boring match. Just git gud.

[justcallme A S H]

Dakota1000, on 03 May 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

they would hide behind a rock

Airstrikes of GG.

A brilliant way to move people from balled up clumps of carbhydrate.

[Vxheous]

MischiefSC, on 03 May 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

You don't charge the middle of them. Flank to an edge and push in.

You set a firing line to receive a push or the like but it's as a prelude to a push. The fundamental problem with setting a static line is that you give the opportunity to the other team to do something other than what you want. If you're going to set a line, make it a mobile one.

If you're not moving either up or back or to the side and the other team is then you're likely going to end up in a bad situation if you're against a good, well coordinated team. If you're not then, well, the only real required strat is 'don't potato'.

I say this with having charged a stack of 9 Atlases and a couple BLRs and some poor silly ******* in a LRM Orion on Caustic earlier tonight. Exposed ourselves a bit to draw the charge, then rolled right into their flank and demolished them in detail, 2s and 3s against 8 or 9. We absolutely pushed right into them; many went past them, forcing them to turn or have exposed backs, etc.

Range is a very situational advantage. Mobility is always useful if it is always in use and it's very difficult to take away from someone.

The ability to soak a ton of damage due to CXLs is another huge, huge advantage. If I push into a firing line and can survive your teams first alpha.... Most of you are going to burn a second one to finish me off. You're now 75% to heat cap and my teammates are closer to 25% and moving forward faster than you can back up. Sure, I die with ~50 damage however I've helped ensure the success of my teammates and controlled the focus and attention of the other team. I can say with certainty how the rest of that wave is going to go.

You also play the KCom style of bring 300m or less weapons and brawl push. You're basically going brawl on brawl with the Atlas wave and relying on superior skill to prevail (which you rightly did so, against I'm guessing Clan Davion)

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 May 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

You also play the KCom style of bring 300m or less weapons and brawl push. You're basically going brawl on brawl with the Atlas wave and relying on superior skill to prevail (which you rightly did so, against I'm guessing Clan Davion)

Nope, it was some great players. Though I want to give absolute props to C4/HHoD et al for getting on their A game. Have had some great matches with them the last few months. Hard, challenging matches. Makes me happy to see it. I secretly intend to hide a Davion decal on my mechs for the fights for Tuk3.

We beat an equal sized team from EVIL (who are exceptional players, one and all) doing the same thing earlier today though.

It's not all about just charging the middle of the line. There's a lot of math and strategy that goes into it. Burst damage vs sustainable DPS, etc.

Sure, skill is a big part of any fight. Being able to make your shots is a big part of the game overall. However the skill that wins in aggression isn't your ability to make shots but your ability to follow the call, even if it's against your instincts. Even if it means you go down early and end with a sub 1K match.

Teamwork is OP and teamwork is strongest in motion. It's best active, not reactive. Constant aggression and pushing doesn't mean right up the middle; it means pushing them into the position you want them in and then rolling right up and destroying them.

Or, to put it this way -

[Vanguard319]

Drops I was in tonite didn't have to run down the clock, took out omega in the first, and repelled the invaders in the second