10 replies to this topic

[Remover of Obstacles]

So - 91 clicks..

If this does go live, please for the love of god, have a way to save skill tree load-outs before you patch it to live. And please test it on the PTS.

Apparently the PTS is down already before I could see if they had implemented and tested out a system that lets you save skill trees.

[Scyther]

Save Skill Tree as <name> / Load Skill Tree <name> would sure save a lot of clicks.

[ForceUser]

A simple 'activate all nodes in a tree' button would go a huge way in terms of usability, specifically because deactivating a node can deactivate more than 1 node at a time and you generally have more nodes active than inactive in most trees.

[oldradagast]

MWO: A thinking man's clicker.

Click, click, click those nodes! Oh, look - a missile buff for your energy-only mech! Are we excited yet by the "choices" as we grind our way through dead nodes to reach the same optimal skill maze build we'll put on every mech?

Lunacy... PGI will PGI.

MadBadger, on 30 April 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Save Skill Tree as <name> / Load Skill Tree <name> would sure save a lot of clicks.

This is the same game company that never provided a way to save mech loadouts... well, unless it was an MC only feature, which is about right for them. Hell, Diablo had that ability, as did Guild Wars, which dates to 2005.

[Scyther]

@Oldradagast, you like repeating the 'terrible examples of bad design' that you read in the forums from other people who also did not actually bother to acquire any facts before commenting. It seems to be a popular activity lately.

Here are some fresh new actual facts for you, taken from the skill tree lab link at: https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/

1) The firepower tree places all its 'Energy' nodes down one side of the tree, all its Ammo based nodes down the other side or along the middle. This is specifically done to minimize the number of nodes you have to take to boost one weapon system.

2) The only 'Energy-specific' node at all is the Laser Duration skill - there is nothing for PPCs or flamers. All ten Laser Duration nodes are fairly close together and can be chosen while taking only 7 other nodes, all of which are either Range, Cooldown, or Heat Gen nodes that help your Lasers (as well as every other weapon system).

3) All the Cooldown, Heat Generation, and Range nodes boost ALL weapon systems. Thus they are placed throughout the entire tree. The obvious intent is that anyone boosting any weapon system should be able to cheaply pick up a few Range/Heat/Cooldown nodes, but not too many (the skill tree/module replacement is clearly overall nerfing those areas).

4) The only time you choose to select a non-energy node for your all-energy mech is if you decide that -5% Heat Generation, +7.5% Range, and 4.5% cooldown is not enough for your mech, and actively choose to go after Heat/Range/Cooldown nodes on the Ammo side of the Firepower tree. In that case yes, to boost a weapons system beyond PGI's 'design limit' you have to pick some non-energy nodes. That is one of the 'give and take' choices they are specifically designing for. If you want big bonuses, you have to give up some potential nodes somewhere else. The same applies to Ammo weapons users who want to pick up Heat/Range/CD bonuses from the Energy side of the tree.

There you go, fresh new facts from an actual verifiable source. Feel free to repeat them at will.

Edited by MadBadger, 01 May 2017 - 06:03 AM.

[oldradagast]

Badger: You're just cherry-picking that one example of "putting weapon quirks I don't need on my all energy mech" Fine: Look over the other trees: arm skills on mechs with no arm weapons or real ability to use them, hill climb getting in the way, etc.

The bigger problems still remain:

• - The presentation and UI are poor
  
• - There are too many nodes and too many choices, false choices in particular
  
• - The system is just another way for new players who aren't "in the know" to screw up their mechs
  
• - The respec costs are totally unacceptable in a game like this, particularly given the risk of new players hosing their skill builds and PGI changing the skill maze regularly (which you know they'll do.)
  
• - In the end, most mechs are going to end up with the same meta skill builds anyway, making all this extra complexity an utterly pointless exercise and just another way to reduce new player capability to get up to speed in the game quickly.

You seem perfectly happy with this outcome, or at least resigned to it; that's your choice. I'm not going to waste my breath arguing the exact number of crap nodes or false choices with you, nor am I just going to put a smile on my face and say, "this is fine" just because PGI can't handle even this one task.

[Remover of Obstacles]

MadBadger - Thank you very much for the link. https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/
I didn't have time to play with the Skill Maze before PTS2 went down.

First thought... What the hell is this vomit on my screen?

Second thought... Solahma save us!!!
https://mwomercs.com...p-and-proposal/

oldradagast, on 01 May 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

The bigger problems still remain:

• - The presentation and UI are poor
  
• - There are too many nodes and too many choices, false choices in particular
  
• - The system is just another way for new players who aren't "in the know" to screw up their mechs
  
• - The respec costs are totally unacceptable in a game like this, particularly given the risk of new players hosing their skill builds and PGI changing the skill maze regularly (which you know they'll do.)
  
• - In the end, most mechs are going to end up with the same meta skill builds anyway, making all this extra complexity is an utterly pointless exercise and just another way to reduce new player capability to get up to speed in the game quickly.

Totally agree with all of your points.

More man-hours (dollars) spent that did not advance the game or improve fun.

Maybe PGI can come up with another game mode that can be 'won' without either team seeing or shooting at each other.

[oldradagast]

That being said, while I don't agree with MadBadger on the skill maze, I do appreciate him posting the link. Thanks, seriously.

And I bet dollars to donuts PGI hasn't put the link up anywhere on the main website yet...

[Dollar Bill]

MadBadger, on 30 April 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Save Skill Tree as <name> / Load Skill Tree <name> would sure save a lot of clicks.

Thank you MadBadger. That's a great idea that would help the dumpster fire of a Skill Maze UI be more manageable. But, because of PGI's (Russ and Paul's) ego and arrogance, it will be ignore like all the other great ideas from the community. This idea would cut in half the salt Skill Maze is causing. And would be the only silver lining in the frustration inducing Skill Maze cloud. But PGI must make us do thing the hardest way possible...because they are all knowing, and know better than anyone else on the planet.

So yeah, we anit gona see this (yet another) great idea any time soon.

[Scyther]

Well you would have to backtrack my posts a couple weeks, or read very carefully. I did not agree with the new skill tree, I posted that it needs serious improvements, I suggested improvements.

Then to answer some questions I had to dig further, install the PTS, try some trees, read more of what PGI themselves said (10,000 forum posts don't mean as much as 1 comment from PGI, at times).

After that research, I decided that 'fighting' the PTS implementation or even asking for much beyond the tiniest improvements (like a save/load feature) was a waste of my time and of anyone who read such posts.

So yes, I am resigned to it, not 'happy' with it. That said, once I became resigned to it as a done deal, I switched over to 'Okay lets see what we can do with this puppy' mode. If it's coming soon we may as well learn how to get the most out of it.

Also, several people have thanked me for the link to the skill lab, which I happily stole from the user who linked it for me, so thank that masked mystery forumite. And even more so, thank Ted Lin who actually coded and created the site. (Thank you Ted!)

(Oh and save/load Skill Tree was stolen from user 'Queen of England', who was the first person I saw suggest it. Nice to see the monarchy getting out of their stuffy tower and rocking some stompy robots!)

Edited by MadBadger, 01 May 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[oldradagast]

MadBadger, on 01 May 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

After that research, I decided that 'fighting' the PTS implementation or even asking for much beyond the tiniest improvements (like a save/load feature) was a waste of my time and of anyone who read such posts.

So yes, I am resigned to it, not 'happy' with it. That said, once I became resigned to it as a done deal, I switched over to 'Okay lets see what we can do with this puppy' mode. If it's coming soon we may as well learn how to get the most out of it.

Fair enough. I just don't see it that way. If they trash game balance (likely) and make the mechs I enjoy playing worthless, or at least unplayable in a way I enjoy (very likely), then I may be done with this now-stupid game. I certainly won't be spending any more money on it, and while I'll probably play a bit now and then, I simply won't care about it any more.

I ask for very little from PGI - I'd be happy with nothing but maps and mechs because they are quite frankly too damn lacking in skills for anything else - and I can't even get that. Nothing about the skill maze is good, from what I've seen, so all that remains is to determine if the game is even fun to play anymore after that dumpster fire goes live. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 May 2017 - 03:29 AM.