18 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

With the new Skillsystem comes a lot of "finding out what works for you".
From experiance with other games that changed or simply introduced a skilltree for the first time, they allways gave away a Re-skill token you could trade in to reset your entire skilltree and get back all points spend.

I think that would be a good move for MWO too. The new skilltree is quite complex and a lot of people will most likely skill it the wrong way the first time.
So a way to simply reset everything without beeing punished could lower the frusttration level quite a lot.

So what do you think PGI what about it?
Who else would like to have this option?

[El Bandito]

PGI wants you to spend C-Bills and XP to respec--making it a sort of sink, so you would want to use real cash for mechs. Otherwise what's the point of making MWO F2P in the first place? For a veteran like me, I will be getting back more GSP/HSP than I know what to do with, so I am not concerned about myself.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 April 2017 - 02:48 AM.

[Nesutizale]

The other games that gave away a free token where also F2P titles. They gave, as a reason giveing you a free token, that they want to make the transition to the new system as easy as possible.

After the token is spend they also ask for either ingame currancy or real cash to re-skill. So that is total normal for F2P titles and I don't have a problem for PGI asking for Cbills to respec.
Frankly I find it a better solution to ask for Cbills then haveing to spend real money.

[Johnny Z]

Not a bad idea eventually. Maybe even a great idea if it isn't much trouble to put into the game.

The GSP works great also though. Its a transition currency, really no different than a respect token.

The entire new skill tree is good for the sim because recustomizing mechs would cost something. Its also standard for video games to have costs associated with respeccing. So any complaints here are really weak.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 April 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Paid respec is absolute garbage. Might as well charge us to power up and power down our mechs or for every ac shell used

[Shifty McSwift]

thievingmagpi, on 01 May 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

Paid respec is absolute garbage. Might as well charge us to power up and power down our mechs or for every ac shell used

[The Jerol]

I, for one, am not looking forward to having to click 91 nodes for each of my mastered mechs -- and I only have a few compared to most. I can only imagine what it will be like for some of you... Because of the re-spec mechanic, I am inclined to wait and see about best builds for my mechs after the skill tree goes live. I think re-spec tokens are an excellent idea, btw.


TJ

[thievingmagpi]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 May 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

Fiddling with builds is a critical part of mwo.

Not only does putting a barrier up stand in opposition to a core element of mw, it's a huge barrier for new players or players who might just want to mess around or have made mistakes and not read the latest meta tier.rundown.


All these players can sit and thumb their noses at others because they have 9 billion xp to spend, and the 40,000xp it takes to respec is pocket change to them- but it completely ignores how insulting and restricting that concept is.

[Koniving]

El Bandito, on 29 April 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

PGI wants you to spend C-Bills and XP to respec-

Not big on this, but that's a lot better than PGI's original idea.
"Spend real money."

[Shifty McSwift]

thievingmagpi, on 01 May 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

Fiddling with builds is a critical part of mwo.

Not only does putting a barrier up stand in opposition to a core element of mw, it's a huge barrier for new players or players who might just want to mess around or have made mistakes and not read the latest meta tier.rundown.


All these players can sit and thumb their noses at others because they have 9 billion xp to spend, and the 40,000xp it takes to respec is pocket change to them- but it completely ignores how insulting and restricting that concept is.

It is pretty common sense what the good buffs are for a given build, new players have ample opportunity (considering the in game chat ease) to ask about anything before committing, and furthermore being a new player has never been easy, I would definitely argue it is cheaper now overall with the need to only buy 1 mech and the relative cheapness of the modules buffs alone now.

And how often do you plan to fully respec a mech build? I am hoping for just the once but may make a few mistakes (which will in no way require a full respec), the only times I can see a need to is with new tech, but if they change the tree they will likely restore any spent points to unspent when doing so. Or I guess one would hope, it is pretty common sense stuff to do.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 01 May 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

It is pretty common sense what the good buffs are for a given build, new players have ample opportunity (considering the in game chat ease) to ask about anything before committing, and furthermore being a new player has never been easy, I would definitely argue it is cheaper now overall with the need to only buy 1 mech and the relative cheapness of the modules buffs alone now.

And how often do you plan to fully respec a mech build? I am hoping for just the once but may make a few mistakes (which will in no way require a full respec), the only times I can see a need to is with new tech, but if they change the tree they will likely restore any spent points to unspent when doing so. Or I guess one would hope, it is pretty common sense stuff to do.

You've made a whole lot of the ignorant assumptions I spoke of.

Common sense what the good skills are?

To.who?

You?

Okay great. Good for *you*.

This doesn't benefit others who aren't *you*. Besides, how many times do you see sub optimal garbage builds? Very often. Common sense?

These players should be "punished" in game by losing battles. They shouldn't be punished from a systems perspective because they made a mistake or didn't watch SnugglesTime latest video.

If these options are obviously "good" choices then everything else is superfluous and should be removed. PGI should not even bother.

Furthermore, it harms players who just want to mess.around a bit (a key component of MW).

The claims this is supposed to be about diversifying get thrown right out the window as soon as the option to experiment come at a cost.

You also ask how often I'm going to fully respec.

Why do you care?

It's a possibility. I may want to, I may make a mistake, pgi may/will rebalance.

If it's "not a possibility" remove the system entirely. Just because you and the minmaxers don't, doesn't mean some people will want to.

Even a partial respec is still *tens of thousands of xp*. Even a single cbill is too much

Edited by thievingmagpi, 01 May 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

thievingmagpi, on 01 May 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

You've made a whole lot of the ignorant assumptions I spoke of.

Common sense what the good skills are?

To.who?

You?

Okay great. Good for *you*.

This doesn't benefit others who aren't *you*. Besides, how many times do you see sub optimal garbage builds? Very often. Common sense?

These players should be "punished" in game by losing battles. They shouldn't be punished from a systems perspective because they made a mistake or didn't watch SnugglesTime latest video.

If these options are obviously "good" choices then everything else is superfluous and should be removed. PGI should not even bother.

Furthermore, it harms players who just want to mess.around a bit (a key component of MW).

The claims this is supposed to be about diversifying get thrown right out the window as soon as the option to experiment come at a cost.

You also ask how often I'm going to fully respec.

Why do you care?

It's a possibility. I may want to, I may make a mistake, pgi may/will rebalance.

If it's "not a possibility" remove the system entirely. Just because you and the minmaxers don't, doesn't mean some people will want to.

Even a partial respec is still *tens of thousands of xp*. Even a single cbill is too much

I hardly think asserting a sense of common knowledge about basic things (not the more tenuous choices, the obvious ones for a build or in general, like if I have mostly lasers I'll take some laser buffs, or hmm should I take that hill climb or the speed), and asking a question is anything close to a "whole lot of ignorant assumptions", for that I refer you back to the hyperbole police video.

Clearly you don't like the idea of a respec cost and that's fair enough, take it easy man.

[thievingmagpi]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 May 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

I hardly think asserting a sense of common knowledge about basic things (not the more tenuous choices, the obvious ones for a build or in general, like if I have mostly lasers I'll take some laser buffs, or hmm should I take that hill climb or the speed), and asking a question is anything close to a "whole lot of ignorant assumptions", for that I refer you back to the hyperbole police video.

Clearly you don't like the idea of a respec cost and that's fair enough, take it easy man.

The issue is that you've only spoken based on what affects you- a common assumption. It doesn't affect me so I'm fine with it.

Well that's good it doesn't affect *you*. There are many it will.

Invoking what players "should do" according to common sense is not reasonable. Players * don't* do these things and sometimes choose not to. This should not be punished by a cheap mechanic.

We're looking at 40,000 xp to respec. That cost should be 0. Unlock it, buy it, done.

[Shifty McSwift]

No, by common sense I literally meant things that should be clearly apparent to most, I wasn't trying to make it a comment about intellectual ability, it also refers to commonly communicated ideas too, which the game allows for as does the forum, it doesn't mean everyone has to search the ultimate meta to play, it is up to you whether you ask a few questions, or test things out for yourself, or go full net-building, testing things out for yourself just costs extra I guess unless you manage to "get it right" the first time. The system is a bit daunting at first but is pretty self explanatory, and any "mistakes" made are still benefits until they are changed etc.

IDK, I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, apologies for applying memes, but in my defense you were being exceedingly hyperbolic.

[Davegt27]

I just wish they would drop (implement) the new skill tree
Tomorrow

Let's get it over with, no amount of talk is going to convince me this pig will fly
So let's just strap a parachute to its butt and push it out the door

[thievingmagpi]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 May 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

No, by common sense I literally meant things that should be clearly apparent to most, I wasn't trying to make it a comment about intellectual ability, it also refers to commonly communicated ideas too, which the game allows for as does the forum, it doesn't mean everyone has to search the ultimate meta to play, it is up to you whether you ask a few questions, or test things out for yourself, or go full net-building, testing things out for yourself just costs extra I guess unless you manage to "get it right" the first time. The system is a bit daunting at first but is pretty self explanatory, and any "mistakes" made are still benefits until they are changed etc.

IDK, I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, apologies for applying memes, but in my defense you were being exceedingly hyperbolic.

The problem again is if they're so obvious, then they should be automatic. We shouldn't be teased with choice, only to be punished by the game mechanic if we decide a over b.

This works me up because it's so narrow minded of pgi. Not surprised though what with their cheapskate comments...

I every look forward to skill tree 2.0.

I'm in favor of change. If i had it my way, there would be quarterly requirks/buffs just to keep things fresh.


But I don't stand for holding your players hostage for wanting to participate in a core game element

[El Bandito]

Koniving, on 01 May 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

Not big on this, but that's a lot better than PGI's original idea.
"Spend real money."

MC option for skilling up would be fine for me too, as "pay for convenience" is one of the more acceptable forms of earning cash in a F2P game. Who knows, some rich newbie might like that option. So PGI could do both.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 May 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[Koniving]

El Bandito, on 01 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

MC option for skilling up would be fine for me too, as "pay for convenience" is one of the more acceptable forms of earning cash in a F2P game. Who knows, some rich newbie might like that option. So PGI could do both.

Meant to the pay cash to start over again rather than to net unlocks.

I would be fine with some getting it that way.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 01 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

MC option for skilling up would be fine for me too, as "pay for convenience" is one of the more acceptable forms of earning cash in a F2P game. Who knows, some rich newbie might like that option. So PGI could do both.

Yeah pay with time or cash, as in pay to avoid grind, is fine ideally. Some have more time than money some have more money than time etc, best to cater to all.