23 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Pretty big topic right now is the module refund and how it should work. Personally I think cbills spent under old system that no longer exists should equal cbill refund but some say we shouldn't have all these cbills pushed back into the economy. However the current system is just not right for some players. Sure the ones getting a few dozen mechs worth probably love it, but the ones that are getting hundreds worth, well...not so much. It would just take to long for some players to ever use that and cbills would be much better. So I was thinking if the other options of being able to sale all GSP or picking cbills for the refund isn't something PGI wants to do then how about a compromise. Lets figure out a reasonable amount of GSP and then set that as the minimum you get before being able to sale or pick cbills.

I was thinking about 50 mechs worth, would like less but trying to compromise. Exact amount is open to debate but thats over 8 ultimate mech packs worth of mechs so it would take most players a decent amount of time to get that.

What I'm suggesting is if your refund is currently

50 or less mechs worth of GSP then you get only GSP.

51 or more mechs worth of GSP then you get 50 mechs worth of GSP and the rest in 100% cbill refund.
Or all GSP but you can sale all but 50 mechs worth of GSP.
Or when you first log in after the refund goes live it asks you how much you want and you can choose how much you want in GSP but 50 mechs worth is the minimum.

This still cuts down on the amount of cbills coming back to the players but makes it so we don't end up with so much GSP that it is effectively worthless and for many a downgrade from the cbill refund of skill tree pts1.

[Felicitatem Parco]

PGI is already offering everybody more leveling progress than we currently have on our Mechs.

Every Mech that you have the second module slot uocked for will be given enough skill points to represent having that slot unlocked PLUS having modules installed... Even if you didn't buy modules for it. Modules you have will be exchanged for even more skill points.

If you spent Cbills on modules to improve mech performance, then you'll be getting mech performance points when the tree drops.

I see no need for refunds. You bought skill modules with Cbills? You get skill points. Straight swap, no complaints here. You spent Cbills for performance, you get performance in return.

Can't see a sane reason to demand any refunds.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 May 2017 - 02:04 PM.

[dario03]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

PGI is already offering everybody more leveling progress than we currently have on our Mechs.

Every Mech that you have the second module slot uocked for will be given enough skill points to represent having that slot unlocked PLUS having modules installed... Even if you didn't buy modules for it. Modules you have will be exchanged for even more skill points.

If you spent Cbills on modules to improve mech performance, then you'll be getting mech performance points when the tree drops.

I see no need for refunds. You bought skill modules with Cbills? You get skill points. Straight swap, no complaints here. You spent Cbills for performance, you get performance in return.

Can't see a sane reason to demand any refunds.

I already gave you a sane reason. You bought skill modules with Cbills? You no longer have access to said skill module system? Get cbills back. Straight swap, no complaints here.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I would be happy to see this. I am getting like maybe 70 mechs worth of GSP and while that is a bit more than I would like it isn't totally absurd or unusable....unlike some long time players who are getting 100+ or 200+ mechs worth of GSP back. PGI...I like GSP, just don't bury your longest term players with a single-use currency refund they can't possibly go through in under 3 years...just don't

[Felicitatem Parco]

dario03, on 01 May 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

I already gave you a sane reason. You bought skill modules with Cbills? You no longer have access to said skill module system? Get cbills back. Straight swap, no complaints here.

Waitwaitwait, what?

Are you saying we will no longer have a system to increase weapon ranges, cooldown rates, or add sensor mods such as radar deprivation or target decay? Then what the hell were those Skill Tree Public​ Tests? Are you saying there will not be a skill tree?

Look, bud, we are going to have a system where you invest resources to improve mech performance. If you invested Cbills into modules, then you paid Cbills for Skills.

Do you want your Cbills back? Fine, then PGI should gve you less than 91 skill points for mastering a mech.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 May 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[dario03]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Waitwaitsait, what?

Are you saying we will no longer have a system to increase weapon ranges, cooldown rates, or add sensor mods such as radar deprivation or target decay? Then what the hell were those Skill Tree Public​ Tests? Are you saying there will not be a skill tree?

Thats not what I said and you know it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

dario03, on 01 May 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Thats not what I said and you know it.

You said there won't be a "module system" to spend resources on to improve mech performance. If you spent Cbills on modules, that means you wanted to buy skills with Cbills.

Admit it. You bought modules because you wanted to exchange Cbills for Skills.

Like I said:

Want cbill refunds? Fine, then ask PGI politely to give you less than 91 points per mastered mech.

[dario03]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

You said there won't be a "module system" to spend resources on to improve mech performance. If you spent Cbills on modules, that means you wanted to buy skills with Cbills.

Admit it. You bought modules because you wanted to exchange Cbills for Skills.

Like I said:

Want cbill refunds? Fine, then ask PGI politely to give you less than 91 points per mastered mech.

Thats not exactly what I said though. Also I wouldn't have a problem with them giving me less than 91 points per mastered mech and never said that I would.

[vandalhooch]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Waitwaitwait, what?

Are you saying we will no longer have a system to increase weapon ranges, cooldown rates, or add sensor mods such as radar deprivation or target decay? Then what the hell were those Skill Tree Public​ Tests? Are you saying there will not be a skill tree?

Look, bud, we are going to have a system where you invest resources to improve mech performance. If you invested Cbills into modules, then you paid Cbills for Skills.

Do you want your Cbills back? Fine, then PGI should gve you less than 91 skill points for mastering a mech.

Works for me. I have more than enough GXP and MXP to cover the difference and I'll have enough C-bills to buy dozens of new mechs and enough GXP to master those as well. I'll end up with more mastered mechs than other players because I played more matches than most of them.

[BumbleBee]

Id be happy with 20 Mechs worth of GSP. Thats what i'll end up with after I sell off 3/4 of my modules the day before the patch hits anyway. I'd much rather the C-Bills, they are much more valuable to me.

All but 4 of the ~115 Mechs I own are mastered and have extra XP on them as it is, and I have plenty of GXP in the bank already.

[Samedi Wretch]

What we need is so simple -- a slider bar. Choose the proportion of your refund you would like in GSP and/or C-bills. Done.

The problem with the GSP for modules swap is that they're converting from a global skill enhancement system to a mech specific enhancement. So Prosperity Park, stop falsely equating them.

[FallingAce]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Want cbill refunds? Fine, then ask PGI politely to give you less than 91 points per mastered mech.

You do realize that a fully mastered mech without modules is not worth 91 points? Right?

The reason why some people (the cheapskates) think 2.0 is such a good deal is they are getting 91 nodes on their mastered mechs when they only deserve ~61. That would be a bonus. The people with many modules are getting the same 91 nodes but have to give up the value of modules. That would be a penalty. (And no, GSP is not a viable substitute)

vandalhooch, on 01 May 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Works for me. I have more than enough GXP and MXP to cover the difference and I'll have enough C-bills to buy dozens of new mechs and enough GXP to master those as well. I'll end up with more mastered mechs than other players because I played more matches than most of them.

+1

Give us our ~61 SP and 100% C-bills. I'm sure we can make up the difference.

[Dogstar]

Do we have to have this exact same argument again?

@OP you really didn't need to post this there were at least three threads you could have contributed to instead, now there's going to be another three days of arguing from vandalhooch and co until everyone gets sick to death of it and lets them have the last word

[Widowmaker1981]

Prosperity Park, on 01 May 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Do you want your Cbills back? Fine, then PGI should gve you less than 91 skill points for mastering a mech.

Id be fine with that, since the billions of cbills i got back would be more than enough to pay for any leveling i might need to do.

Others, not so much...

I dont expect it to be changed, and im not throwing my toys out of the pram about it, I just want the 'others' in this to admit that the new system isnt fair.

[Shifty McSwift]

FallingAce, on 01 May 2017 - 11:12 PM, said:

You do realize that a fully mastered mech without modules is not worth 91 points? Right?

The reason why some people (the cheapskates) think 2.0 is such a good deal is they are getting 91 nodes on their mastered mechs when they only deserve ~61. That would be a bonus.

I'd say at least some of them just didn't factor in the true capacity of whales either, and just can't appreciate the severity of the situation for some of them, the skill tree change to many is just a change, the idea of a refund doesn't effect some that much.

GSP (the points you get for refunded old modules), if I am not mistaken, are somewhat like HSP in how they can be spent without need for extra cost, so essentially they contain C-bills and XP within them. The most logical system (within the context of what we have seen on PTS not in a general sense of what is logical) would have it so you can reverse engineer the points back into their XP and C-bill equivalent (as would be doable with all but HSP, as mech and skill tree specific points). But I am unsure whether that would add up to more cbills than just selling them or not.

That would make sense going forward too, even if there was a slight tax in doing so, the XP system is getting pretty convoluted to say the least.

But of course that is not the only idea, and in the scheme of things a less convoluted XP system overall would of course be preferable, but some of the messiness of it has been caused by refunds it seems.

I am unsure of the historical nature of modules too, have they always had the same pricing model? Were they cheaper at some stage that would make a refund more of a payout?

[Jingseng]

I like the part where we all agree to the title, but have differing and intractable opinions as to what constitutes reasonable.

[Ace Selin]

In the end PGI are harming themselves by dissenfranchising their customers with cheap moves like not 100% refunding modules. When I'm getting GSP for 600 odd mechs for my modules it becomes worthless, especially since all but 6 of 150 mechs i own are already fully mastered. Add to that a million GXP and i have a no use for GSP. PGI made up the system for modules and now are totally changing it, offering 100% module refunds is the only right thing to do.

[PhoenixFire55]

Jingseng, on 02 May 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

I like the part where we all agree to the title, but have differing and intractable opinions as to what constitutes reasonable.

The most reasonable thing to do at this point would be to nuke the entire skill tree 2.0 and forget all about it.

Either make a skill tree that actually has a purpose of diversifying mechs and mech builds (instead of yet another moneysink) or don't make one at all.

[Jingseng]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 May 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

The most reasonable thing to do at this point would be to nuke the entire skill tree 2.0 and forget all about it.

Either make a skill tree that actually has a purpose of diversifying mechs and mech builds (instead of yet another moneysink) or don't make one at all.

Again, differing opinions on what constitutes reasonable......

[dario03]

Jingseng, on 02 May 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

Again, differing opinions on what constitutes reasonable......

What amount of GSP do you think would be reasonable? So far we have my example of 50, a suggestion of 20, and then different refund system suggestions.