24 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Tired of "team death match" where the objectives are only secondary?
Do you want to see a change in the game modes?


Let's change it up!



AI ! AI everywhere!
Add a dropship of AI mechs, or add convoys (AI) to each game mode!
For FP, the dropship could return for each "round" (e.g. every time one side lost 12 mechs)

The basic idea is to reuse the Escort mode AI path and the turret AI aiming logic for weapon control.
At least the mechs could fire off their LRM and Laser (thats possible by the current AI for turrets, afaik).

Examples:


Escort
currently: one Atlas vip on random path nodes. VIP dies very easily (12 players shooting it to end the game)

new:
- 3 more AI mechs that guard the Atlas (e.g. Hunchback 4P, Stalker, Grashopper on IS side, Nova Prime, Timber Prime, Supernova on Clan side. could be random)

This would act as additional targets for the attacker as well as more protection for the VIP (2 mechs in front, one in the back of the VIP)


Incursion
currently: stationary energy generators. Teams rush bases or fight outside without objectives, then damage the base.

new:
- 4 mechs to patrol around your base to act as defenders (may only dropped in by Dropship)

- 4 transport vehicles with energy cells + 2 tanks/mechs to move from the outside of the map (random spots in the middle edges) towards one of the bases every 3 minutes.

- Air control tower will let the Dropship fly over the enemy base towards your base, spot enemies below it and drop new AI mechs as reinforcements (max of 4 or 8 AI mechs?)

This would provide some protection against rushes AND give constant flow of energy cells IF the convoy is not stopped by scouts/skirmishers.
Adds another element to the tower- powering gameplay with the addition of AI convoy and AI drop-in AI


Siege
currently: often teams are unbalanced and one side dominates the other

new:
- every time attackers/defenders send in the 3rd drop ship (or after 12 losses) an additional Dropship with 4 AI mechs is launched to increase defenders with one lance of AI mechs.

- Attacker AI mechs move slowly towards one random open gate (after brief waiting time) and then towards the generators, but only fire at enemy mechs (not at turrets/gens)
Could have a "trigger" to move if any player is close enough (50m).

- Defender AI mechs patrol near the generators and support with laser and LRM mostly


Skirmish/Conquest
currently: mostly team deathmatch with deathball formation. No scouting outside of conquest nodes before you have big clash in the middle of the map.

new:
- 4-8 AI mechs drop together with the player teams and move to random locations depending on game mode. AI will slow down if in range to not rush in too fast.

- Skirmish and Conquest might use wide spread formation (so the AI is combing through the whole map in smaller teams instead of deathballing).


Domination
currently: everyone is grouped in/around the area and sniping the other players around that area. nothing else and the rest of the map is not used.

new:
- Make the outpost drop locations for the AI

- If your outpost is intact, there is a Dropship incoming with 4 AI mechs on each of the intact outposts every 3 minutes!

- AI mechs are slowly moving towards the center Domination point from two different sides
Could have a "trigger" to move if any player is close enough (50m).

- Goal of the game is to get the more surviving AI + Players out of the battle - destroying more players and AI mechs than you lose by the end of the game.

This sounds more lika a MOBA game on paper...
But the goal is not to just whipe out the enemy team and stay in the circle, but to actually assist the AI in killing and staying alive.

If you don't defend the outposts, you will have no more AI mechs, but you can still win by killing more enemy AI+player mechs and surviving, which is much harder without the extra AI as shield/turret/distraction helping your team.

So splitting up between attacking the circle with the AI and defending/atacking the outposts is important!

[Zigmund Freud]

I think AI mechs are too powerful to give them to only one side, like in escort. Escort is pretty balanced now, as far as i see. And VIP is hard to kill if you rush it. It's easy to kill with 12 mechs shooting at it, but hey, that's the point, defenders should not let 12 mechs shot their VIP.
In case of incursion fuel cells convoys awe awesome idea, like several fuel trucks (basically moving generators) and a few tanks (basically moving turrets), that spawn outside of map and move forward to friendly base. So instead of sprint to gen and back to base with almost no fight, lights will be able to attack enemy convoy or deffend their, therefore - more time to fight enemy lights. And turrets should have their LRMs back, to make lights rushing a bit less effective. Inside the base fule cells by default are transfered to radar, then jammmer, then air control, or can be mannualy placed wherever.
Your dominatin idea is indeed too MOBA, and will be too much mechs on the map.
Conquest is fine as is.

Actually i get what you're saying. But the problem is that a lot of people like skirmish better, and will always deathball, in any game mode. So easy fix to all game modes would be bringing back game mode checkboxes. Sure, seaching for a game would be not 5 seconds, but a bit longer. But this way if you check, for example, conquest, people will be able to play *conquest*, and skirmish guys will stop complaining about how much they hate this mode and BAAAAW stop liking what i don't like.

[El Bandito]

Might as well. Pugs often act like badly written AI in the first place.

[LowSubmarino]

This new game mode.....incarceration? Its way too complex for a simple minded caveman like me.

I have literally zero idea what to do. Theres walls, xes and symbols.

Only god almighty knows what to do there.

I just run around and kill mechs. Thats what i know to do. Thats what ive been doing thats whats fun.

Edited by oneda, 08 May 2017 - 03:51 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Zigmund Freud, on 08 May 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

I think AI mechs are too powerful to give them to only one side, like in escort. Escort is pretty balanced now, as far as i see. And VIP is hard to kill if you rush it. It's easy to kill with 12 mechs shooting at it, but hey, that's the point, defenders should not let 12 mechs shot their VIP.
In case of incursion fuel cells convoys awe awesome idea, like several fuel trucks (basically moving generators) and a few tanks (basically moving turrets), that spawn outside of map and move forward to friendly base. So instead of sprint to gen and back to base with almost no fight, lights will be able to attack enemy convoy or deffend their, therefore - more time to fight enemy lights. And turrets should have their LRMs back, to make lights rushing a bit less effective. Inside the base fule cells by default are transfered to radar, then jammmer, then air control, or can be mannualy placed wherever.
Your dominatin idea is indeed too MOBA, and will be too much mechs on the map.
Conquest is fine as is.

Actually i get what you're saying. But the problem is that a lot of people like skirmish better, and will always deathball, in any game mode. So easy fix to all game modes would be bringing back game mode checkboxes. Sure, seaching for a game would be not 5 seconds, but a bit longer. But this way if you check, for example, conquest, people will be able to play *conquest*, and skirmish guys will stop complaining about how much they hate this mode and BAAAAW stop liking what i don't like.

Thank you for the detailed feedback.

My difficulty with Domination is the mix of AI, the circle of doom and the outposts.
With the outposts, the purpose was to reset timers of the enemy, but that would mean someone would need to stay behind to attack/defend the outposts, which nobody does.

So my idea was to have some kind of reinforcements coming, but then it turned out to be a MOBA (e.g. LOL, Dota and For Honor)

So what else could the outposts and AI be used for?
Maybe some convoy that moves in the direction of the dominating team (e.g. dominating outposts), but then its similar to the Conquest mode.

One idea:
- Once dominating, there are hover-tanks (savanna master, very fast) transporting scientists/hostages/resources away from the circle to the outposts to be taken by dropships, so it turns out into a rescue mission.

- The transports can be destroyed and the outposts can be destroyed to prevent the enemy to rescue personel/resources.

That way you need to dominate, but also to defend the escape route.
Only problem I'm stuck at would be that everyone just brawls inside the circle and nothing happens, as no side has control.
Any idea?

[Reno Blade]

Any other ideas?

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Or you know

We can have Co-op/Wave defense or Steiner Zombie Mech survival mode

[Humpday]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 09 May 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Or you know

We can have Co-op/Wave defense or Steiner Zombie Mech survival mode

Yes please! Need zombie robots!

[Reno Blade]

Please go ahead and line out how that would work. I'm up for a coop survival round, as long as it's more interesting than Training grounds

[Kaethir]

The optimism you have that PGI would even consider dedicating enough resources to do this is... well I can't decide if it's refreshing or depressing.

Their AI needs a lot more work before it's even close to good enough to do something like this.

That being said, not a terrible idea, so long as if you're giving AI assistance, BOTH sides get it unless W/L data supports one side or the other of a particular mode being OP.

[Reno Blade]

To fix Faction Play in general, I would try something like this:

The launch windows now only checks/asks if you want scouting or invasion games (if your group is meeting the tonnage limits)

Scouting remains as 4vs4, but you can automatically get into a scouting match if your group/tonnage fits and you have selected it in the "play" menu.
solo/group queue separated

Quick Play uses a "static" dropdeck of the same mech 4x and uses the existing matchmaking - for solo only.
maybe 8vs8 only.

Faction Play uses the existing drop deck functionality and is up to 12vs12, but only groups are matched by using the matchmaker rules from current quick play group queue (minus the tonnage matching, as it only needs to match clan/is)


additionally some changes to the Map/Planetary system come into play.
faction and unit gain resource points for each game (Scouting / QP / FP), with a soft cap, (more from conquest/domination modes and more for FP games in general) which can be used to "buy" certain stuff for the Faction Play games by the group/company leader(s).

Faction Plan lobby will have a new interface for spending the resources.
- Unit officers can use unit resources/coffer
- Any player can add his personal resources (even Loyalists)
- points are only spend if the group has enough points to unlock the feat
- Factions have different bonus values that can increase if the faction owns more planets


FP Drop Feats
some ideas to spend your pilit/group/unit resources:
- Faction Camo and colors (default colors) automatically set ingame for the player/team - low cost per game

- Turret upgrades (health / range / dmg) for Invasion defender game - medium cost per game
- Generator upgrades (health) for Invasion defender game - medium cost per game
- Tower upgrades (health / duration / range) only for Incursion game modes - medium cost per game

- Dropship upgrades (higher tonnage) unlocks "extra" dropdeck - high cost per game
- Dropship downgrade (lower tonnage, faster respawn speed) allows to "save" some resource points with lower drop weight for a 5th mech drop - medium cost per game

- Air supperiority provides you shorter cooldowns on Airstrikes and longer cooldowns of the enemy airstrikes - high cost per game (only one team can have this active)
- Ground supperiority provides you shorter cooldowns on Artillery support and longer cooldowns of the enemy Artillery - high cost per game (only one team can have this active)

- AI controlled resource/repair convois that can repair turrets/towers/generators if they reach the base - can be intercepted by the enemy team - Air/Land crafts require "Air/Ground supperiority" - high cost per game


Faction Bonuses (always active in all modes, if applicable)
some ideas depending on owned/conquered Planets per season:
- all IS factions get 10-30% discount on "Air/Ground" feats
- all Clan factions get 20-50% discount on "Dropship downgrade" (down-bidding)
- all Clan factions get X% less payment on losses, but X% more ressources/loyalty on victories
- all Clan factions get bonus to
- all factions get bonus loyalty/ressources when piloting faction specific variants
- all factions have 5-10% better armor/agility when piloting faction specific variants
- Mercs get 50% of their employer bonuses
- Mercs get X% more resources/payment
- Mercs get X% discount on "Ground supperiority" feat

weapon buffs could be range/cooldown about 5-10% (depending on planets)
- Steiner gets 15-40% discount for "Dropship Upgrade" feat
- Steiner gets X% buff to Assault mech speed and Gauss Rifles
- Davion gets X% buff to agility of Medium mechs
- Davion gets X% buff to Ballistics and ML
- Liao gets 15-40% buff to range/duration on ECM, BAP, Stealth Armor, UAV and scouting/incursion sensor effects
- Liao gets X% buff to SRM and Pulse Lasers
- Marik gets 15-40% discount on all turret/tower/generator and convoi feats
- Marik gets X% buff to speed of Heavy mechs
- Marik gets X% buff to LLaser and LRM
- Kurita gets 25-50% buff to all faction bonuses
- Kurita gets X% buff to PPCs and LRM
- FRR gets 15-50% discount for "Air supperiority" feat
- FRR gets X% buff to ER Lasers

- Clan Wolf gets X% buff to short range weapons and UACs/LRM
- Clan Jadefalcon gets X% buff to medium range weapons and LBX/PPC
- Clan Smoke Jaguar gets X% buff to long range weapons and Gauss/Streak
- Clan Ghost Bear gets X% buff to short weapons and SRM/Laser

[The Mysterious Fox]

i only want skirmish and ffa...

[Reno Blade]

One Idea floating around would be to have asynchronous battles.
let's say 6-8 high elo payers vs 12-18 "average" PUGs.

It sure would be interesting for both sides.
While the try-hards might get a challenge with 1vs2 or 1vs3, the pug group has the numbers advantage and can sacrifice more "meat and metal" before the situation gets into a steamroll (versus the current 12vs12).

This would also possibly enable a Clan vs IS mode/event/matchmaker.


TLDR: Instead of trying to balancing the Clan vs IS tech in some matchmaker rules, the MM could use odd team sizes to balance high skill vs average.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Stay away from faction, please.

[Savage Wolf]

The Mysterious Fox, on 12 July 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

i only want skirmish and ffa...

Don't worry, you already have that. You can have it 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 and 12v12 either with respawns or without it.

So... maybe it's time they added something to the game that didn't cater exclusively to you?

[Christophe Ivanov]

I'd love to see a SECOND ENEMY...AI. Say if we were on the crappy Highland map against the Red enemy, have a Second AI enemy that is attacking both Blue and Red's bases and/or assets. Then we would really have to defend our bases/assets as well as the enemy too.

[evilauthor]

Reno Blade, on 08 May 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

Escort
currently: one Atlas vip on random path nodes. VIP dies very easily (12 players shooting it to end the game)

new:
- 3 more AI mechs that guard the Atlas (e.g. Hunchback 4P, Stalker, Grashopper on IS side, Nova Prime, Timber Prime, Supernova on Clan side. could be random)

This would act as additional targets for the attacker as well as more protection for the VIP (2 mechs in front, one in the back of the VIP)

Nah, one mech Escortee is fine. What needs to change is the AI's behavior. Instead of just passively lumbering around, the AI will have one of several distinct personalities ranging from "Coward" to "Leeroy Jenkins". Their personality basically governs how they react when they get shot at.

Quote

Incursion


currently: stationary energy generators. Teams rush bases or fight outside without objectives, then damage the base.

new:
- 4 mechs to patrol around your base to act as defenders (may only dropped in by Dropship)

Not mechs. Vehicles. Tanks and stuff. If necessary, license the designs from HBS. People trying to solo raid a base may think twice after turning a corner and coming face to face with an SRM Carrier.

Mechs should remain strictly the purview of the players.

[Reno Blade]

I'm fine with Tanks or other non-mech troops.

I was more thinking of giving pugs something to shoot besides other players, that is not shooting back too much:)
Reminds me of Titanfall, where you have maybe 3 or 5 pilots and the rest are just soldiers (you are also often soldier when not in the Titan).

[ShadowFire]

I honesty do not think the PGI's programmers and MWO's Cry3 engine are capable of decent AI. Just because MW4 had it 16 years ago does not mean MWO is remotely capable of a game mode relying upon AI actors. Just look at the joke of missile turrets and AI Atlases they have come up with so far. They should shunt this game over to the newer engine and maybe have a fighting chance of programming some decent AI interaction.

[MechaBattler]

Remember when they promised a new Assault mode with one side attacking a base surrounded with destructible walls? Or something to that effect. Pepperidge Farms remembers.