109 replies to this topic

[Moadebe]

Monkey Lover, on 09 May 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

I been playing so long now changing it up a little wouldn't be a bad thing. I just don't want it to get worse.Even without the skill tree the engine decouple is a big thing too. It hasn't been tested for what i have seen.

Balance on this is way off on some mechs with acel/deceleration quirks sometimes get transferred over some of them didnt. Some of them got less,some got more.
This is on both clan and IS.

Actually, the last PTS had the engine decoupling as well. That was actually probably the main reason I decided to check it out and honestly...WITH the skill tree i saw nothing wrong with it and actually saw an improvement. Without the perks of the skill tree it does hurt some heavier mechs (which is fine with me...)

[Valhallan]

CK16, on 09 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

They stated they want this a clean slate for balance...lemme tell you IS balance between thier own mechs is worse then IS to Clan....the top is over the top and the bottom is below the scum usually...

See here is the rub, the base line "clean slate" is already present its the clan quirkless wonders which are acknowledged as premier in their class hbk2/ngyrs/kdks/mad2c etc. It's not like the bar can be lowered further unless clanners are willing to accept negative quirks again. The big issue many have with the IS nerfs is that they are pretty much blanket nerfs, ALL IS mechs are getting worse (including the scum mechs like victors/vindis/trebs) it's not setting up a base-line for balance, because again the base-line is already present, it's just torching it all. The skilltree itself is fine, the complaints are on why the heck do we need a massive quirk nerf, to the mechs that people acknowledge need quirks, along with it?

[L1f3H4ck]

Well, the event makes the wait for the skill tree and the Javelin bearable. As for balamce, you can't work on it anyway before the new tech drops, which will benefit IS more than Clans.

[Kanil]

Monkey Lover, on 09 May 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Im going to buy a skill tree mouse so i dont wear our my gaming mouse clicking hehe.

If you're that worried about your mouseclicks, I would strongly suggest rebinding all your weapon groups to keyboard, if you haven't done so already.

I played two hours yesterday and put in over a thousand mouseclicks, which is enough to master 10 mechs. Just think of all that completely unnecessary wear and tear that goes into your gaming mouse by playing the game.

[Moadebe]

Here for all the people griping about having to click things cause they might sprain their shooty finger or something.

Click on skills at the top = 1 click
scroll down to your mech type or filter by class = 0 clicks or 1 click
select type = 1 click
select chassis mech tree = 1 click

select unlock on desired skill = 1 click
select XP type to choose type of experience to use to unlock said skill = (since it defaults to mech xp) 0 clicks or 1 click (for GXP)
click ok = 1 click
confirmation required = 1 click
do this 13 times for one chassis 39~52 clicks (depending on whether you use mech XP or GXP)

Now since you have to do this on at least 3 total chassis in order to master one mech = add 2 clicks per one single click listed here for other chassis's selection
to master one mech completely you must have elite filled out in 2 other chassis (24 total skills without module slot) 72 ~ 96 clicks depending on if mech xp or GXP is used.

Total clicks:
clicking on all optional clicks = 152
clicking on only mandatory clicks = 114

Now this is to master ONE chassis currently.

"But once you master the other two chassis they are done and you don't have to click on them in the future." True. However the fact I have to buy 2 other Chassis I could honestly not care for to master 1 chassis I do like is a much bigger valid argument and gripe than "I have to click on so much STUFF."

Now before you argue that you have SO MANY MECHS!! Congrats, you have played the game and accumulated mechs over the course of you playing it.




Seriously and truthfully answer these questions. Do you play ALL of them everyday? Ok, ok, how about EVERY week? Probably a larger pool of mechs for a per week than a per day right? How about per month? Oh we just got a much larger pool right? Now look at the mechs you have not touched since you got em. Whether it was so you could master one chassis or just got bored with it and never looked back cause you found a newer FoTM. Will you play ALL of those regularly on a weekly basis after the new skill tree?

Answer those questions truthfully.

Be realistic and stop with the "I gotta click so much" argument. It is seriously invalid.

Edited by Moadebe, 09 May 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Kanil, on 09 May 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

If you're that worried about your mouseclicks, I would strongly suggest rebinding all your weapon groups to keyboard, if you haven't done so already.

I played two hours yesterday and put in over a thousand mouseclicks, which is enough to master 10 mechs. Just think of all that completely unnecessary wear and tear that goes into your gaming mouse by playing the game.

Bad joke, I plan on just mastering up maybe 15 mechs i play out of the 100+ i have. Then over time i will do more when i need it.

[Alexander of Macedon]

As a predominantly IS player and FRR loyalist:

I like the skill tree. I think it's a good way to increase TTK, shift 'mechs closer to filling specific roles, and force differentiation between classes. I don't mind how the compensation is laid out (though I didn't spend a bunch of real money buying 'mech packs for modules so I don't have a horse in that race, lol).

I don't like that PGI is trying to act like removing a [redacted]load of quirks from IS is somehow compensated by the skill tree. The skill tree is 1) there to replace the existing skill+module system, 2) available to every 'mech, including ones that are already very good and not getting nerfed at all (almost exclusively clam 'mechs), and 3) doesn't have the capacity to replace the lost offensive quirks even if SP caps were set individually per variant or chassis.

If there were no quirk nerf I would be stoked for the skill tree. But because there is, [redacted] they either believe that the mass nerfing of already weak 'mechs is a good thing for balance, or that players are dumb enough to buy that, I am exceptionally nervous about it, because they have a history of doing stupid crap and leaving the resulting problems to fester for years on end.

Edited by Tina Benoit, 11 May 2017 - 10:55 AM.
staff abuse/insult + nonconstructive

[L1f3H4ck]

Moadebe, on 09 May 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Here for all the people griping about having to click things cause they might sprain their shooty finger or something.

Click on skills at the top = 1 click
scroll down to your mech type or filter by class = 0 clicks or 1 click
select type = 1 click
select chassis mech tree = 1 click

select unlock on desired skill = 1 click
select XP type to choose type of experience to use to unlock said skill = (since it defaults to mech xp) 0 clicks or 1 click (for GXP)
click ok = 1 click
confirmation required = 1 click
do this 13 times for one chassis 39~52 clicks (depending on whether you use mech XP or GXP)

Now since you have to do this on at least 3 total chassis in order to master one mech = add 2 clicks per one single click listed here for other chassis's selection
to master one mech completely you must have elite filled out in 2 other chassis (24 total skills without module slot) 72 ~ 96 clicks depending on if mech xp or GXP is used.

Total clicks:
clicking on all optional clicks = 152
clicking on only mandatory clicks = 114

Now this is to master ONE chassis currently.

"But once you master the other two chassis they are done and you don't have to click on them in the future." True. However the fact I have to buy 2 other Chassis I could honestly not care for to master 1 chassis I do like is a much bigger valid argument and gripe than "I have to click on so much STUFF."

Now before you argue that you have SO MANY MECHS!! Congrats, you have played the game and accumulated mechs over the course of you playing it.




Seriously and truthfully answer these questions. Do you play ALL of them everyday? Ok, ok, how about EVERY week? Probably a larger pool of mechs for a per week than a per day right? How about per month? Oh we just got a much larger pool right? Now look at the mechs you have not touched since you got em. Whether it was so you could master one chassis or just got bored with it and never looked back cause you found a newer FoTM. Will you play ALL of those regularly on a weekly basis after the new skill tree?

Answer those questions truthfully.

Be realistic and stop with the "I gotta click so much" argument. It is seriously invalid.

How dare you fact-check in this post-factual world? Seriously tho, well done. This is it folks, ready or not, here it comes! They gonna drop it like it's hot in a week.

Oh boy, my stable is going to be so decked out! Ledger is looking sweet, most of my mechs are mastered and I bought a generous amount of modules after they announced the refund. And those tasty GSP! my Javelin will not leave the mech bay without all the quirks!

[Cy Mitchell]

Naglinator, on 09 May 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

Not this, 91 clicks but i got to bring missle cool down skill ON A MECH WITH NO MISSILE HARDPOINTS to unlock speed tweek.... wtf...kk rant over back to gaming.

You did not test the Skill Tree at all, did you?

[Pixel Hunter]

CK16, on 09 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Seriously stop...some of you guys like literally every post have to go on the skill tree which hunt...even in completely off topic stuff you will tie it on or leave a little note at the end (death to skill tree cause nerfs!)

They stated they want this a clean slate for balance...lemme tell you IS balance between thier own mechs is worse then IS to Clan....the top is over the top and the bottom is below the scum usually...

see, I would be on board with the skill tree IF it didn't make balance worse...but it will and it only opens doors to another round of PGI chasing their tails to fix the balance issues.

[Appogee]

My concern all along has been that it nerfs already-bad chassis and gives great chassis access to further buffs.

But hey, bring it on. I'm done with waiting for the fustercluck - I just want it to happen asap so we can get on with the task of putting it behind us.

[TWIAFU]

Novakaine, on 09 May 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

There was a similar ragequit-wtf-to many clicks-omgerd - hate in another game I like to play.
But after implementation everyone started to breath and then love the skill tree.
Was it perfect naw.
But the customization available for each individual character breath fresh air into the game.
In my opinion.

IMO, your Bard is weak and pointless and has no point to exist. Virtuoso is the true path.

Reincarnate or reroll.

Shatara, on 09 May 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

And how many characters did the average player have? 20? 50?

4-6. I had 10-12, but a bit more involved. Not necessarily how many characters one has but how many times you have reincarnated as one character can incarnate into each class and eventually cycle through them all with immense power.

Edited by TWIAFU, 09 May 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[AnTi90d]

[redacted for false rumor claims]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 11 May 2017 - 10:58 AM.
staff abuse/insults and false rumors claims

[Novakaine]

TWIAFU, on 09 May 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

IMO, your Bard is weak and pointless and has no point to exist. Virtuoso is the true path.

Reincarnate or reroll.





4-6. I had 10-12, but a bit more involved. Not necessarily how many characters one has but how many times you have reincarnated as one character can incarnate into each class and eventually cycle through them all with immense power.

Just a random screenie.
The true power is my Cleric/Barbarian/Fighter/Favored Soul/Paladin.
"Beware my holy thunderous maul biaaaaaaaatch's."

Edited by Novakaine, 09 May 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[Revis Volek]

[redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 11 May 2017 - 11:00 AM.
nonconstructive

[SFC174]

Alexander of Macedon, on 09 May 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

As a predominantly IS player and FRR loyalist:

I like the skill tree. I think it's a good way to increase TTK, shift 'mechs closer to filling specific roles, and force differentiation between classes. I don't mind how the compensation is laid out (though I didn't spend a bunch of real money buying 'mech packs for modules so I don't have a horse in that race, lol).

I don't like that PGI is trying to act like removing a [redacted]load of quirks from IS is somehow compensated by the skill tree. The skill tree is 1) there to replace the existing skill+module system, 2) available to every 'mech, including ones that are already very good and not getting nerfed at all (almost exclusively clam 'mechs), and 3) doesn't have the capacity to replace the lost offensive quirks even if SP caps were set individually per variant or chassis.

If there were no quirk nerf I would be stoked for the skill tree. But because there is, [redacted] they either believe that the mass nerfing of already weak 'mechs is a good thing for balance, or that players are dumb enough to buy that, I am exceptionally nervous about it, because they have a history of doing stupid crap and leaving the resulting problems to fester for years on end.

I agree with you on the topic of how ****** up things will be with the mass nerfing of IS mechs. I forsee playing my clan mechs for the immediate future after the skill tree release.

That said, how can you reach the conclusion that the new tree will improve the filling of specific roles and differentiating the classes? Right now the only thing that does that is quirks and build choices. With the new PTS, most mechs will actually be more generalist than they were before since you must take things like hill climb, shock absorbers, improved gyros, etc. and when you do choose to max out a specific area, the gains will often be less than what you'd get with a module on the current live game (never mind the loss of specializing quirks).

[Tarogato]

Moadebe, on 09 May 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Here for all the people griping about having to click things cause they might sprain their shooty finger or something.

Click on skills at the top = 1 click
scroll down to your mech type or filter by class = 0 clicks or 1 click
select type = 1 click
select chassis mech tree = 1 click

select unlock on desired skill = 1 click
select XP type to choose type of experience to use to unlock said skill = (since it defaults to mech xp) 0 clicks or 1 click (for GXP)
click ok = 1 click
confirmation required = 1 click
do this 13 times for one chassis 39~52 clicks (depending on whether you use mech XP or GXP)

Now since you have to do this on at least 3 total chassis in order to master one mech = add 2 clicks per one single click listed here for other chassis's selection
to master one mech completely you must have elite filled out in 2 other chassis (24 total skills without module slot) 72 ~ 96 clicks depending on if mech xp or GXP is used.

Total clicks:
clicking on all optional clicks = 152
clicking on only mandatory clicks = 114

Now this is to master ONE chassis currently.

*actually logs into the game to make sure this is correct while typing it out*


2 clicks per skill. There are 13 skills, so 26 clicks.

4 clicks to get into the tree itself. I usually do several thousand XP per visit, so 5 to 8 visits in total. Probably on average, 26 clicks.

So in total, 52+ clicks under the old system. At most maybe 60 or so clicks.

The new system is 91+ clicks just to unlock the skill themselves, not including navigation.



But more importantly is just the scale of the danged thing. You going from something that looks like this:






To something that looks like this:









For reference, here are some other skill trees.

Hearts of Iron:






World of Tanks:







War Thunder:






Armoured Warfare:







World of Warships:







Most traditional MMOs and MOBAs these days seem to resemble this, used by LoL:








Now tell me... why again do we need this?

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Novakaine, on 09 May 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

There was a similar ragequit-wtf-to many clicks-omgerd - hate in another game I like to play. But after implementation everyone started to breath and then love the skill tree. Was it perfect naw. But the customization available for each individual character breath fresh air into the game. In my opinion.

This tree is nothing like the skill tree proposed by PGI. If PGI gave me this I would be over the moon.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Path of Exile skill tree just for another comparison. I did not play that game long at all though.

[Felicitatem Parco]

CK16, on 09 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Seriously stop...some of you guys like literally every post have to go on the skill tree which hunt...even in completely off topic stuff you will tie it on or leave a little note at the end (death to skill tree cause nerfs!)

They stated they want this a clean slate for balance...lemme tell you IS balance between thier own mechs is worse then IS to Clan....the top is over the top and the bottom is below the scum usually...

Yeah, I see no correlation between the Skill Tree and T3 event.