54 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Many lower Tier IS players are carrying on about some claim that everyone decent is stacking Clan side.

Hell, some people are even calling for a boycott.

But is everyone really stacking clan side?


What most people are too dumb to see is is the bar at 100% does not mean Clan is winning 100% of the time. Clan - from what I can see from the war log - clan winning ~55% of the time. So of course the bar is going to be at 100% over time.

So lets do some fact/number checking based on current numbers shall we?

Clan total: 99,075

IS total: 82,235

Well, would you look at that? 54% win rate to Clan.

Now all the people crying about "Everyone is stacking Clan side"... or "This proves Clan imbalance" etc etc...

Please shut up already. That difference is absolutely stuff all. Someone has to win.

Fact is there are plenty of good teams on both sides. If you are losing - maybe you are the problem not the population?

[Ryllen Kriel]

Let's turn this into a positive recruitment advertisement. Hey New Players, please do go stack Clans, we could use this advantage on the Inner Sphere side!

[Bud Crue]

If I played clan I am certain things would balance out pretty quickly.

[Karl Marlow]

When I look at the leaderboard it isn't just the clans but specifically smoke jaguar that is the elephant in the room.

The other three clans and the IS have a reasonably nice spread to their scores but then smoke jaguar more than doubled the second place score. What is it about smoke jaguar that is letting them run away like that?

[SmokedJag]

Karl Marlow, on 10 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

When I look at the leaderboard it isn't just the clans but specifically smoke jaguar that is the elephant in the room.

The other three clans and the IS have a reasonably nice spread to their scores but then smoke jaguar more than doubled the second place score. What is it about smoke jaguar that is letting them run away like that?

Mercs signed on to Jags is my understanding.

[Karl Marlow]

SmokedJag, on 10 May 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

Mercs signed on to Jags is my understanding.

Not all of them. IS currently has some really good Merc units as well. Heck mercs are all that is propping up Marik and almost all that is propping up Liao sans TCAF.

[ingramli]

justcallme A S H, on 10 May 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Many lower Tier IS players are carrying on about some claim that everyone decent is stacking Clan side.

Hell, some people are even calling for a boycott.

But is everyone really stacking clan side?


What most people are too dumb to see is is the bar at 100% does not mean Clan is winning 100% of the time. Clan - from what I can see from the war log - clan winning ~55% of the time. So of course the bar is going to be at 100% over time.

So lets do some fact/number checking based on current numbers shall we?

Clan total: 99,075

IS total: 82,235

Well, would you look at that? 54% win rate to Clan.

Now all the people crying about "Everyone is stacking Clan side"... or "This proves Clan imbalance" etc etc...

Please shut up already. That difference is absolutely stuff all. Someone has to win.

Fact is there are plenty of good teams on both sides. If you are losing - maybe you are the problem not the population?

May be you are right. However my experience is playing IS PUGs (vs Clan PUGs) in invasion games is not favorable in a whole, may be 40/60 w/l for defending side, and 10/90 for attacking, YMMV.

[justcallme A S H]

Karl Marlow, on 10 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

When I look at the leaderboard it isn't just the clans but specifically smoke jaguar that is the elephant in the room.

The other three clans and the IS have a reasonably nice spread to their scores but then smoke jaguar more than doubled the second place score. What is it about smoke jaguar that is letting them run away like that?

Well it didn't take the T5's long.

Fact is - It just does not not matter. There is no elephant.

The actual reason is CSJ has a lot of really good units in it right now (and started with a decent contract rate because of PGIs utterly flawed population calculation). If those units were spread out across clan it would just be more even numbers.

But again, so what? The overall % would be the same.

[justcallme A S H]

ingramli, on 10 May 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

May be you are right. However my experience is playing IS PUGs (vs Clan PUGs) in invasion games is not favorable in a whole, may be 40/60 w/l for defending side, and 10/90 for attacking, YMMV.

Not maybe - I am. The numbers simply do not lie.

Personal experience is just that. You can control/improve your experience by:

1. Joining a unit
2. Failing the above get on a TS hub and joining an open team
3. Don't bring rubbish builds to FP (as per the warning screen).

Most people having a poor experience flatly refuse to address the above 3 issues. I have addressed the above 3 and and as a result have lost 3 games total now over about 70-80 matches. It just isn't that hard to have fun in FP as long as you are willing to embrace the mode and how it works.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 May 2017 - 04:37 PM.

[Deathlike]

I'm pretty sure a fair majority is stacking Clan... for whatever reason (tech, imbalance, mechs, etc.).

The thing is that some people feel like making excuses to lose... when MOST of the time it's about teamwork, builds, and working together that determines success or failure.

I mean, I'm pretty loud about the Clan imbalance and it's there, but some people choose to ignore what the best IS mechs/options are then just blame the Clans.

It would be nice if people showed up and not trying to just coast their way into success... because teamwork requires work.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 May 2017 - 04:38 PM.

[Templar Dane]

Rewind back to Tuk1 and Tuk2. IS outnumbered clan. IS queues were 30+ minutes long waiting for a match. If your unit wanted to get quick games and get on the leaderboard you needed to be clan.

A greater number of units joined or switched to clan for that queue advantage, so clan had a greater percentage of groups playing........which means a higher chance of being 'skittles' if you were playing for IS.

A group of 12 is going to dominate an unorganized random 12 dudes that are pugging. Even if your team had 6 guys that were in a group, odds are you are still going to lose. There are no separate queues for pugging/groups like there are in quick play. The side that can field the most 12-man groups is going to win the tug of war even if a handful of the better teams are on the other side because there's a sea of pugs to farm on both sides.

The greater concentration wins. But some very vocal people with agendas are whipping the discouraged pugs into a frenzy on the forums with some extreme anti-clan propaganda about balance. You tell them hundreds of units joined clan, they tell you 3 joined IS. You tell them the tug of war is being won by units, they tell you it's being won by pugs who are dominating 228/EVIL with LRMs.

[ingramli]

justcallme A S H, on 10 May 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Not maybe - I am. The numbers simply do not lie.

Personal experience is just that. You can control/improve your experience by:

1. Joining a unit
2. Failing the above get on a TS hub and joining an open team
3. Don't bring rubbish builds to FP (as per the warning screen).

Most people having a poor experience flatly refuse to address the above 3 issues. I have addressed the above 3 and and as a result have lost 3 games total now over about 70-80 matches. It just isn't that hard to have fun in FP as long as you are willing to embrace the mode and how it works.

The problem is, the clan side is often PUGs same as us, but they smash us most of the time, that is strange.

[The6thMessenger]

Ryllen Kriel, on 10 May 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Let's turn this into a positive recruitment advertisement. Hey New Players, please do go stack Clans, we could use this advantage on the Inner Sphere side!

Lol yeah. Should the newbies flock on Clan, whats left with the IS is those who are skilled and loyal.

[Templar Dane]

Karl Marlow, on 10 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

When I look at the leaderboard it isn't just the clans but specifically smoke jaguar that is the elephant in the room.

The other three clans and the IS have a reasonably nice spread to their scores but then smoke jaguar more than doubled the second place score. What is it about smoke jaguar that is letting them run away like that?

Just before the event started smoke jag had the lowest population for the clans, the only one with a payout bonus. If you were going to sign up your unit for a clan in order to get faster queues, would you join a clan with an established population that you would have to compete on the leaderboard with.........or join the one with the lowest population and a payout bonus?

[justcallme A S H]

Deathlike, on 10 May 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure a fair majority is stacking Clan... for whatever reason (tech, imbalance, mechs, etc.).

The thing is that some people feel like making excuses to lose... when MOST of the time it's about teamwork, builds, and working together that determines success or failure.

I mean, I'm pretty loud about the Clan imbalance and it's there, but some people choose to ignore what the best IS mechs/options are then just blame the Clans.

It would be nice if people showed up and not trying to just coast their way into success... because teamwork requires work.

If the majority of units were - It wouldn't be 54% though, it would be closer to 70%. Leaderboard suggests it's an even spread of the good Merc units on both sides. Hard to see as it's only top 5, but, I'm a MWO Social ***** - I know most people across the top 30 Merc unit and my friends list is a very even spread.

I 100% agree on balance. You & I have the same view.

However in FP that imbalance is somewhat diminished in the face of teamwork over 4 waves and 48 mechs... WHY??? Because again as we agree, teamwork is the most overpowered in that mode above all else.

The biggest issue IS PUGs have:

1. Piloting
2. Builds

Most PUG v PUG matches there is little to no organisation so it comes down to those two items, for the most part.

[Karl Marlow]

justcallme A S H, on 10 May 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Well it didn't take the T5's long.

Fact is - It just does not not matter. There is no elephant.

The actual reason is CSJ has a lot of really good units in it right now (and started with a decent contract rate because of PGIs utterly flawed population calculation). If those units were spread out across clan it would just be more even numbers.

But again, so what? The overall % would be the same.

Well that's interesting. I was mostly agreeing with you but but now you contradict your own case by pointing out that clan smoke jaguar is being stacked.

Well done Lu Bu.

In fact when you combine the two inner sphere merc heavy houses and compare that to clan smoke jaguar the clan is still beating the IS by over 10k points. Almost 12k.

[Templar Dane]

ingramli, on 10 May 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

The problem is, the clan side is often PUGs same as us, but they smash us most of the time, that is strange.

I have a brain, have no loyalties to either side, and I saw what was coming. We were about to do a contract with an IS house but when we saw the teasers for Tuk3 we stayed the course and stayed smoke jag because of the IS/clan population spread and remembering the abysmal wait times of the previous events. Though wait times as far as I know are instant, at least for clan, I remember the soul draining 50 minute waits we had as IS during the other events.

The non-unit masses signed up or stayed IS. So they were either clueless or loyalists. So the IS loyalists and the clueless are running amok on the forums whining about how clanners are winning and it must be the fault of the mechs.......

[justcallme A S H]

Templar Dane, on 10 May 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Rewind back to Tuk1 and Tuk2. IS outnumbered clan. IS queues were 30+ minutes long waiting for a match. If your unit wanted to get quick games and get on the leaderboard you needed to be clan.

A greater number of units joined or switched to clan for that queue advantage, so clan had a greater percentage of groups playing........which means a higher chance of being 'skittles' if you were playing for IS.

The greater concentration wins. But some very vocal people with agendas are whipping the discouraged pugs into a frenzy on the forums with some extreme anti-clan propaganda about balance. You tell them hundreds of units joined clan, they tell you 3 joined IS. You tell them the tug of war is being won by units, they tell you it's being won by pugs who are dominating 228/EVIL with LRMs.

Yes but this is TUK3 - the landscape is not the same anymore given the exodus since FP3 and FP4.1's very poor, implementation.

Talking to people daily the resulting feedback is:

IS is Insta drops
Clan is between Insta and 10mins

So the facts are:

1. Clan has the higher population, wait times tells us this.
2. Clan is marginally winning more games.

Meaning this event in terms of population, win rate and overall balance - is pretty really nowhere near as far off as a lot of people are making out. Largely because they are uneducated about the mode, it's players and it's core issues.

Karl Marlow, on 10 May 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Well that's interesting. I was mostly agreeing with you but but now you contradict your own case by pointing out that clan smoke jaguar is being stacked.

Well done Lu Bu.

In fact when you combine the two inner sphere merc heavy houses and compare that to clan smoke jaguar the clan is still beating the IS by over 10k points. Almost 12k.

I did not contradict a thing.

You just do not understand how contracts & population is calculated. I've explained that earlier. I would suggest you go back, read it and educate yourself.

Get it through your head - the points for each respective house do not matter - look at the overall numbers.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 May 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[MOBAjobg]

From my observation, numerous pilots (good ones based on my experience) that I've played with or against in solo quick play are turning up for Clans in solo faction play.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 10 May 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[LordNothing]

i stacked clan. why? mc is good. id have probibly continued with liao if i could have twice the mc.

pgi knew from the get go that this event would be loaded and still bothered with asymetrical rewards. they have noone to blame but themselves. anyone who was around for the other tukayyids knew how this one would go.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 May 2017 - 05:16 PM.