88 replies to this topic

[Araevin Teshurr]

If you can reach Tier 2 and Tier 1 as a solo pug mech pilot, you are really good. Most people get to the upper Tiers only by playing in lances, on TS with their unit, to make it easy for themselves to get wins.

The solo pilot that can do the same is far superior if they can reach those Tiers alone.

[Metus regem]

Araevin Teshurr, on 16 May 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

If you can reach Tier 2 and Tier 1 as a solo pug mech pilot, you are really good. Most people get to the upper Tiers only by playing in lances, on TS with their unit, to make it easy for themselves to get wins.

The solo pilot that can do the same is far superior if they can reach those Tiers alone.

Not entirely true.... the Teir system is weighted to move you up, eventually everyone will be T1, it just takes time... Also since the match score system is heavily influenced by damage done, it rewards sloppy gunnery and punishes efficient gunnery.

[SeaLabCaptn]

I've basically done exactly what you're talking about, I'm not really good/more superior because of this. Solo puging and skill are not mutually exclusive; tier and skill aren't either.

[Araevin Teshurr]

I've seen getting high damage, and losing the match, can prevent you from dropping in rank. High damage and winning moves you up, low damage moves you down for more loss matches. Nothing is going to make you T1 automatically.

[The Basilisk]

One of the biggest factors in game (and in life) that seldomly gets mentioned is pure undeserved simple coincidence, aka luck.

Additionally the time frame you are playing in, dependant on your time zone can be crucial to your success.

As far as I can tell player skill is 1/3rd of the deal in getting up to a higher tier fast.

Just don't give a damn about it.

[Spleenslitta]

Metus regem, on 16 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Not entirely true.... the Teir system is weighted to move you up, eventually everyone will be T1, it just takes time... Also since the match score system is heavily influenced by damage done, it rewards sloppy gunnery and punishes efficient gunnery.

This.

I'm an average joe as far as combat potential goes...The only area i reign supreme in is.....being one the greatest weirdoes in MWO when it comes to choice of tactics and builds.

So your theory that i would be a great player because i climbed up here pretty much alone is all....wrong!

[Metus regem]

Araevin Teshurr, on 16 May 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

I've seen getting high damage, and losing the match, can prevent you from dropping in rank. High damage and winning moves you up, low damage moves you down for more loss matches. Nothing is going to make you T1 automatically.

As I said, the end match score is heavily weighted by damage done, 50% of your damage dealt makes up a very large portion of your score.

Let me give you an example:

In my Warhammer 6R, I will average just under 600 damage with 4 kills (3 of them are solo kills), yet my match score on a loss will be less than 400.

In my Dakka Wolf, I will average about 1k damage and kill 3 mechs (no solo kills) and put up close to 600 match score on a loss.


Now tell me, what mech do you think I was more effective in?

According to how match score is handled the Dakka Wolf, in terms to effectiveness in actual match play, the Warhammer had a much larger influence on the match, accounting for 1/3rd of the entire Red Team being killed before either I died or the match was lost.

Edited by Metus regem, 16 May 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Good points Metus. Here is a weird example that proves statistics/tier ain't all there is.
I played on Alpine and i ran all the way behind the enemy alone. I held the attention of half the enemy team as they kept shooting at me in vain.
I distracted them so well that my teammates had a very easy time of overwhelming them.

I finished the match with a bit over 200 damage and no kills. Don't think i even gave good enough lock for an LRM salvo or take off the limb of a single enemy.
Despite this i influenced the match just as much as my most damaging teammates by keeping the enemy shooting at rocks and air.

I think i got tier percentage decrease from that match. If a player could do this every match and stay tier 5 from it then he is just as good a player as any of those "elite" players.

Funny fact about that match....my mech didn't suffer a single scratch throughout the match. Not even so much as a bump or laser scratch....nothing.
That's efficiency for you. +200 damage but no damage in return. Even elite players have a hard time doing 200 damage without suffering a single point of damage in return.

[Metus regem]

Spleenslitta, on 16 May 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Good points Metus.

Thanks, it comes from experience of killing more than my fair share, but doing it for under 150 damage/kill and not moving out of T4 very fast....

[Spleenslitta]

Metus regem, on 16 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Thanks, it comes from experience of killing more than my fair share, but doing it for under 150 damage/kill and not moving out of T4 very fast....

We're almost complete opposites then. I get few kills and unstable damage that sometimes spikes way up there.
I do mostly 300-500. I actually do my best to stay away from my team since weirdo tactics makes me survive longer that way.

[Spleenslitta]

Just gotta take a guess Metus. Do you use optimised builds that aim to have as much killing potential as possible? Boating lasers/AC/gauss and such?
I use builds like these.

Firestarter 9S with 3x SL, 1-2x ML, ER PPC. JJ's and 265XL. Yup...i completly ignored the quirks...screw the quirks.
Kit Fox 4x MG's, 1 ER SL, 1 ER ML, 1 ER PPC. JJ's & ECM.

I focus on being able to take advantage of all opportunities i can get ahold of with a versatile weapon loadout and thereby make up for my lack of optimisation.
That's far off subject...but to be quite frank i don't give a damn.

[Metus regem]

Spleenslitta, on 16 May 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

Just gotta take a guess Metus. Do you use optimised builds that aim to have as much killing potential as possible? Boating lasers/AC/gauss and such?
I use builds like these.

Firestarter 9S with 3x SL, 1-2x ML, ER PPC. JJ's and 265XL. Yup...i completly ignored the quirks...screw the quirks.
Kit Fox 4x MG's, 1 ER SL, 1 ER ML, 1 ER PPC. JJ's & ECM.

I focus on being able to take advantage of all opportunities i can get ahold of with a versatile weapon loadout and thereby make up for my lack of optimisation.
That's far off subject...but to be quite frank i don't give a damn.

Usually no, I have a preference for Super Stock.

This is the WHM-6R that I run for very consistent damage 550-590 on average with an average of 4 kills (3 of them being solo kills)

The only mech I run that puts out slightly better kill rate for damage dealt is this:

TBR-PRIME

she's hot, but murders things.


My secret to the Warhammer is use PPC's till about 100m, then swap to the CIWS of SPL+MG+ASRM4 and watch as ST's and CT's just melt in short order.

[juxstapo]

Araevin Teshurr, on 16 May 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

The solo pilot that can do the same is far superior if they can reach those Tiers alone.

Can't really agree..

Metus regem, on 16 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

eventually everyone will be T1, it just takes time... Also since the match score system is heavily influenced by damage done, it rewards sloppy gunnery and punishes efficient gunnery.

Because of this, for one thing.

Araevin Teshurr, on 16 May 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Most people get to the upper Tiers only by playing in lances, on TS with their unit, to make it easy for themselves to get wins.

Have you tried it lately? Unless MM totally breaks and no one is around in your bracket, then large, coordinated team drops versus large, coordinated teams are lessons in hu-uber-mility.

PUG'n gives you an environment in which you can make a mistake. Group queue vs. experienced players... notsomuch.
When your opponents are poised and willing to pounce on any mech out of position;
When they are exponentially less likely to miss shots or block each other's lines of fire;
When they understand the value of focus fire and take down targets as a team, instead of focusing on individual accomplishments...
No.. that is not a situation where you have "made it easy for yourself to get wins".

I would also submit that movement, heat management, and targeting are one group of skills; While communication, coordination, situational and positional awareness, and the release of ego required to accept and follow orders are all an entirely different skillset. I would leave it to the individual to decide which is more difficult to master (varies by personality, honestly)

However!! Pick Up Gaming is casual, fun, grindhard. And it will eventually let you saunter into higher and higher tiers. So Shine On You Crazy Diamond!

Edited by juxstapo, 16 May 2016 - 05:27 PM.

[B0oN]

Can I buy beers with my Tier(s) ?
If no, not relevant at all

Just play .

[Tesunie]

I don't show my PSR tier for a reason...

In the end, it doesn't really matter.

Of course, my opinion here.

[Metus regem]

Tesunie, on 16 May 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

I don't show my PSR tier for a reason...

In the end, it doesn't really matter.

Of course, my opinion here.

Pretty much the same story here, PSR means nothing in the end, and I have no interest in E-peen contests....

[Tesunie]

Metus regem, on 16 May 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

Pretty much the same story here, PSR means nothing in the end, and I have no interest in E-peen contests....

I also tend to give a lot of advice and technical information all over the forums. I'd hate for someone to take misinformation just because someone has a high(er) tier.

Doesn't matter what my tier is, T5, T1 or something between. I might not have the skill to do stuff (or luck), but that doesn't mean I do or don't know what I'm talking about. (As I've told others, my knowledge often exceeds my skills.)

Even then, I play only to have fun. Often times, I've found lower tier matches to just be more fun than higher tier matches. I know, as I have two accounts. Not to mention this account as progressed through tiers...

[TercieI]

Metus regem, on 16 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Not entirely true.... the Teir system is weighted to move you up, eventually everyone will be T1, it just takes time... Also since the match score system is heavily influenced by damage done, it rewards sloppy gunnery and punishes efficient gunnery.

Yes and no. Precise gunnery is going to lead to wins and Wins vs Losses is the single biggest driver of tiers because you cannot lose PSR on a win whereas on a loss, you have to have a pretty good game to even break even.

[Tesunie]

TercieI, on 16 May 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yes and no. Precise gunnery is going to lead to wins and Wins vs Losses is the single biggest driver of tiers because you cannot lose PSR on a win whereas on a loss, you have to have a pretty good game to even break even.

I don't know if you've heard my opinion on that part...

You are right. Wins is what really drives PSR. However, I disagree that wins should be so heavily weighted for "Player Skill Rating". It should have some effect, but not as heavy of one as it currently has.

However, my entire comment on that is beyond the scope of this thread. Just suffice that I agree with you and you are correct with how PSR currently operates.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Araevin Teshurr, on 16 May 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

If you can reach Tier 2 and Tier 1 as a solo pug mech pilot, you are really good. Most people get to the upper Tiers only by playing in lances, on TS with their unit, to make it easy for themselves to get wins.

The solo pilot that can do the same is far superior if they can reach those Tiers alone.

TOTALLY disagree. It really depends on the player. Some do better in units, some do better solo. Match score weight is ... well, it's a LITTLE controversial anyhow, as demonstrated above.

But you'll find more than a few players out there in T1, who do NOT drop in group queue often (if at all). To each his own.

Not sure this forum is exactly the right place for this post, though. I mean, it's not apparently relevant to the Mechwarrior Academy Tutorial. Might consider asking a moderator to move it for you, possibly to General Discussion...