43 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

DeloresAbernathy, on 20 May 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

Dual AC20 is interesting and I would not have done for fear of Ghost Heat. According to smuprhys, to fire two AC20s its 30 heat. I suppose it's workable, since that's all you have and if you add in the heat reduction quirks and assuming one can survive the cool down to the next shot.

It's actually...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
23.52 heat after ghost heat, which applies 11.52.

This is a big drop from the original 600% ghost heat.. It is just slightly less than 200% currently, so the increase per shot is astronomical mind you, so never try a 4 AC/20 mech.

For twin Clan AC/20 it's 14.40 additional heatmaking it 26.40.
UAC/20 times 2 is 30.80 heat...
I think I see where you got it from.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Koniving, on 21 May 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's actually...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
23.52 heat after ghost heat, which applies 11.52.

This is a big drop from the original 600% ghost heat.. It is just slightly less than 200% currently, so the increase per shot is astronomical mind you, so never try a 4 AC/20 mech.

For twin Clan AC/20 it's 14.40 additional heatmaking it 26.40.
UAC/20 times 2 is 30.80 heat...
I think I see where you got it from.

You're right! I misread the smurphy chart -- I added the two columns together instead of just using the number for two AC/20s. I can see that dual AC20 is manageable if you watch your heat level. Still according to this very detailed mathematical analysis -- https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357
The base heat capacity for any mech is 30, before Skills. If 30 this is correct then 26 is still a lot. (I notes that a heat simulator available online sets the default value to 40 - so I'm not certain without going back in game which is correct.) Obviously heat sinks and quirks can make it possible to fire again once the weapons recycle, but it's hard to know without testing what's needed. And staggering the weapons fire allows a more steady stream of fire. It's definitely worth some experimenting.

[Rogue Jedi]

DeloresAbernathy, on 22 May 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

You're right! I misread the smurphy chart -- I added the two columns together instead of just using the number for two AC/20s. I can see that dual AC20 is manageable if you watch your heat level. Still according to this very detailed mathematical analysis -- https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357
The base heat capacity for any mech is 30, before Skills. If 30 this is correct then 26 is still a lot. (I notes that a heat simulator available online sets the default value to 40 - so I'm not certain without going back in game which is correct.) Obviously heat sinks and quirks can make it possible to fire again once the weapons recycle, but it's hard to know without testing what's needed. And staggering the weapons fire allows a more steady stream of fire. It's definitely worth some experimenting.

30 base heat before skills and sinks in MWO is correct but misleading, you have to add at least 10 heatsinks (if a 250 or larger engine is used there are 10 in the engine) to take the Mech into a match, and a single heat sink adds 1.2 capacity so it is impossible to take a Mech into a match with less than 42 heat capacity.

Double heat sinks have a higher heat capacity and I believe the values are diferant for Clan and IS, and are also diferant for "truedubs" the double heatsinks built into the engine which have ^{(if I remember correctly)} 0.2 disipation per second ^{(as opposed to IIRC 1.4 for IS and 1.5 for Clan extra sinks)} and 2.0 heat capacity ^{(as opposed to 1.5 for IS and 1.3 for Clan, again if I remember correctly.)}

So what a Mechs base heat capacity ^{(as in the lowest heat it is possible to take the Mech into a match)} is completely depends on the tech base and in the case of an Omnimech its base loadout, the Timber Wolf has a base heat capacity of 57.5 the Warhawks is 65, the Arctic Cheetan is 49.5 due to differing numbers of fixed DHS, while for any Battlemech it is 42

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 May 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[Koniving]

DeloresAbernathy, on 22 May 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

You're right! I misread the smurphy chart -- I added the two columns together instead of just using the number for two AC/20s. I can see that dual AC20 is manageable if you watch your heat level. Still according to this very detailed mathematical analysis -- https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357
The base heat capacity for any mech is 30, before Skills. If 30 this is correct then 26 is still a lot. (I notes that a heat simulator available online sets the default value to 40 - so I'm not certain without going back in game which is correct.) Obviously heat sinks and quirks can make it possible to fire again once the weapons recycle, but it's hard to know without testing what's needed. And staggering the weapons fire allows a more steady stream of fire. It's definitely worth some experimenting.

You're thinking Battletech. This isn't Battletech. Mechwarrior games typically have 40 to 60. (MW2, 40. MW3 30-40? MW3 expansion: 60. MW4: 60. MechAssaults, unknown. MW:LL fan game: 3,000 (degrees; all weapons generated temps in degrees and everything was pretty hot.)
MWO has 40 to 137 possible, though 129 practical (if Clan, but it's about 110 something if IS) (mind you this is with the old skill tree). (Practical is defined as maximum heatsinks plus the weight and space to carry 2 PPCs.)
This is due to MWO's heatsinks giving cooling + threshold at the same time.

Threshold is at: 30 base mech threshold + heatsink threshold which can be measured as... 1.2 (SHS)* heatsink count OR 2.0 With Engine DHS * number in engine (250 = 10, 225 = 9, 200 = 8, etc.) + Added DHS (even if added to engine) at 1.4 [or 1.5 now? Not sure] * count of added DHS. In either case, plus Heat Containment skill percentage.

Cooling is measured as 1.2 * SHS count or 2.0 with engine DHS * that count + 1.4 (or 1.5? think it is 1.5) * added DHS count + Cool Run skill percentage.

Keep in mind, it gets to be convoluted and complex pretty quickly. All percentages are additive, remember your order of operations, and 100% heat is equal to the threshold you have in heatsinks after you factor in the + 30 mech threshold.

Laser vomit and PPC vomit builds could not exist and ghost heat would not need to exist if MWO had a 30 threshold (ACs like the AC/20 would just be nerfed into burst or auto fire ACs like lore rather than the one shot wonders they are).

Note: 40 threshold in MWO was before SHS was changed to "1.2"

Edited by Koniving, 22 May 2017 - 05:53 AM.