953 replies to this topic

[Malifax]

NOPE

[Malifax]

Microsoft doesn't release crap this messed up.

[MovinTarget]

@Horseman

I figure what will happen is now that it has been implemented and is no longer conceptual or in testing, they'll be like "Okay, how can we improve what we have?"... instead of starting all over again. Sunken cost fallacy may not be a good excuse but don't deny that it happens (check out all the auto recalls that happen all over the world, at least MWO isn't gonna kill us... I think...). Besides its much easier to say that from the outside looking in. I don't know how they pay their devs but I can't think wasted manhours in a F2P are good.

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but I am not sure people in the forums understand how unreasonable we sound sometimes, or how varied our demands are. Even if I could design a Mechwarrior game myself I'm not sure I'd touch the IP with a 10 foot pole (that's 2 feet in binary, for you nerds out there) because as you pointed out its dang hard to make all these people happy.

All I know is that whether you agree with their work or not, they are working through the list of promised features slowly but surely.

Perhaps they are just trying to check off a list to say "see we implemented it!"... I don't know, I'm not in their head. I just know that I'd rather not have all of us in my head like they have to.

If you don't like the skill tree, I suggest measures that affect their bottom line over forum raging to affect change.

Personally, I am having fun with it. I'll get around to all my used mechs at some point, but I already have 30 or so Skilled Up and I'm having fun with them. If you are not, my apologies. If you haven't tried it yet, I recommend giving it a good hour or so before you decide. I like the flexibility, I can find shortcuts to get to my desired skills and avoid some unneeded ones. That may not appeal to everyone and I get it, but I've skilled some very different mechs in different ways and liked the result.

Now: Things I would advocate for-

1) Ability to sell GSP as inventory, at least translating to 50% of module cost so those that would rather have cbills can have them as if they sold the modules pre-patch.

2) A Respec grace period of a month or two where there is no cost to respecc as people acclimate to the new system without fear of wasting resources to do so.

3) Build a Skill Tree tutorial in the Academy with rewards for completion (GSP?). You can put it right next to the FP Tutorial (hint hint)

Okay, I'll stop now, I don't know how D V types this much...

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 May 2017 - 01:59 PM.

[HeresWhy]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

1) Ability to sell GSP as inventory, at least translating to 50% of module cost so those that would rather have cbills can have them as if they sold the modules pre-patch.

So a 25% value compared to the person who bought a mech for 6m cbills instead of a module.

[Tarl Cabot]

Col Sharpe, on 16 May 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

That is the truth - they should have just suspended module purchases rather than partial refund or no refund - whatever it was, I didn't even hear about it until last week.

I didn't like the old system, but I'd rather have seen its expansion rather than it being replaced to something like this. Its hard to navigate and frankly I feel cheated by the "refund" and the learning curve it is taking me to just get a select few mechs back to what they once were.

Another alternative would have been to do the following so people would not have to sell off items prior to patch:

• 1/2 refund cost of modules purchased prior to Dec 2016 + 1/2 GSP
  
• Full cost refund cost of modules purchased AFTER dec 2016.

And since everything is recorded, there is no real reason why they could not retroactively make that change.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 May 2017 - 02:26 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Malifax, on 17 May 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Microsoft doesn't release crap this messed up.

Really? You know that worldwide malware issue a few days ago with ransomware ? Exploited a bug in Microsoft Windows operating system which was previously exploited by the NSA for intelligence gathering. If Microsoft didn't release crap this messed up...I wouldn't be getting microsoft updates every couple days for their software.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Steinkrieg, on 17 May 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

[...]
3. Putting needed nodes behind unneeded nodes effectively increases TTK, creates dead skill points, and pigeon holes players into certain builds for certain mechs just as quirks did before the patch.

4. The average TTK has been reduced, which inherently reduces the skill cap for the game.
[...]

Could you elaborate? You're saying that TTK is both increased and decreased.

[NocturnalBeast]

Dee Eight, on 17 May 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Really? You know that worldwide malware issue a few days ago with ransomware ? Exploited a bug in Microsoft Windows operating system which was previously exploited by the NSA for intelligence gathering. If Microsoft didn't release crap this messed up...I wouldn't be getting microsoft updates every couple days for their software.

Doesn't affect Win 10 though.

[MovinTarget]

HeresWhy, on 17 May 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

So a 25% value compared to the person who bought a mech for 6m cbills instead of a module.

I am saying that is you sold all your GSP you'd end up with *at leasr* the resale value of your module had you sold them pre-patch.

This would satisfy those that wanted the right to sell their modules at the 50% cost.

[Wolfgang Grenzstein]

any of you noted the side effect that you gain alot less xp than before or is that just me?

Might be fewer crits and comps destroyed now due to the armor buff but my premium clock is ticking and I receive like 450 xp when dealing 300ish damage sometimes which seems .... low? Who knows.

[HeresWhy]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

I am saying that is you sold all your GSP you'd end up with *at leasr* the resale value of your module had you sold them pre-patch.

Yes, but your suggestion doesn't account for the opportunity cost lost. One person got 4m cbills worth of SP and a 6m cbill mech, the other person received 133SP. Your suggestion extends the gap to a 7m cbill difference in value.

Edited by HeresWhy, 17 May 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[MovinTarget]

HeresWhy, on 17 May 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

Yes, but your suggestion doesn't account for the opportunity cost lost. One person got 4m cbills worth of SP and a 6m cbill mech, the other person received 133SP. Your suggestion lengthens the gap to a 7m cbill difference in value.

If you read my explanation i use phrases like "at least" and " to satisfy those that would have rather sold their modules pre-patch for 50% of their value"

The fact is before the patch no one knew which copies of their modules pre dated 12/3 and which did not. By refunding them for 50% of their module value means they get exactly the same value as those that did sell their modules pre-patch. They also get the ability to pick how much so they could keep so they could decide to keep a few hundred for new mechs and cash in the rest...

I am not sure how your opportunity cost example applies unless we simply take everything away from everyone, refund them all their cbills, MC, real money ever spent and start over from scratch... because you know, opportunity cost loss and all...

Because thats what all the game companies do when they overhaul their systems...

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 May 2017 - 03:16 PM.

[HeresWhy]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

If you read my explanation i use phrases like "at least" and " to satisfy those that would have rather sold their modules pre-patch for 50% of their value"

The fact is before the patch no one knew which copies of their modules pre dated 12/3 and which did not. By refunding them for 50% of their module value means they get exactly the same value as those that did sell their modules pre-patch. They also get the ability to pick how much so they could keep so they could decide to keep a few hundred for new mechs and cash in the rest...

The module value is just an extension of the larger and more impactful issue that is costing players hundreds of millions of cbills in value under this system. Those who bought a bunch of modules for all their mechs versus those who swapped their modules around. Your suggestion exacerbates the larger issue created by a players preference to either minimize downtime or diversify their gameplay experience.

Edited by HeresWhy, 17 May 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[MovinTarget]

HeresWhy, on 17 May 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

The module value is just an extension of the larger and more impactful issue that is costing players hundreds of millions of cbills in value under this system. Those who bought a bunch of modules for all their mechs versus those who swapped their modules around. Your suggestion exacerbates the larger issue created by the players preference to either minimize downtime or diversify their gameplay experience.

So in the post skill tree era, what is the solution? I am fine with a full cbill refund if they take away the GSP since that would constitute too much of an advantage for players like myself that had 300+ modules. I was saying *at least* because it wouldn't be fair to those that already sold them at 50%

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 May 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[FrigginWaffle]

Just wanted to say that even getting all the nodes in the Mobility tree still makes the Atlas (probably other 100 tonners too) the most sluggish and horrendous thing on the planet. I can't even keep up well with mediums circling around me. Please tell me this wasn't tested thoroughly. These assaults are seriously nerfed in this regard. Not that I play them that often, but come on.

[Arkhangel]

and thus, this forum shows that people who hardly play are the guys who actually post the most here. I've been watching IS and Faction chat and it's been overwhelmingly in favor of the new system, even if it is a bit intimidating.

and everything was tested more than thoroughly. fact is, there's some stuff that really couldn't be fixed until it was live. you can PTS till the cows come home and you'll never be prepped for every eventuality. give them time to work the kinks out.

[Terrastras Rex]

FrigginWaffle, on 17 May 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Just wanted to say that even getting all the nodes in the Mobility tree still makes the Atlas (probably other 100 tonners too) the most sluggish and horrendous thing on the planet. I can't even keep up well with mediums circling around me. Please tell me this wasn't tested thoroughly. These assaults are seriously nerfed in this regard. Not that I play them that often, but come on.

mobility adds a % of the mechs speed.. why would you put mobility on something very slow? =?

[HuntingU]

I never post to the forum but this skill tree change has disappointed me so much I had to. This game is unplayable now. Its completely changed and is a waste of time for me to try to get things running again. Maybe if they roll back, I may come play again but for now, ciao baby.

Edited by HuntingU, 17 May 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Okay it may not please you.

It may not appeal to you.

But it can't be unplayable suddenly...

[HuntingU]

It is unplayable because you can't compete unless you invest a ton of time I don't have to play it. So YES. UNPLAYABLE