342 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Titanomachy, on 16 May 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

eh, nm. not bothering with the images

Don't need em (I just think they make it easier). Just list/describe with sufficient clarity that we know what you are talking about.

[Wattila]

This is designed for MAD-3R, or some other heavily structure quirked ballistic/ppc mech.

EDIT: 05-26-2017. Updating the build. Not speccing Mobility as the MAD-3R is agile enough.

Firepower (41): We take all the velocity and magazine nodes as those are just staple for projectile builds. We also take as much heat gen as possible.

Survival (32 nodes): MAD-3R has excellent structure quirks, so we get all the structure nodes. We also take all the armor nodes, since this build does require some face time.

Operations (13 nodes): 4/5 cool run nodes for as cheaply as possible.

Auxiliary (5 nodes): It's worth getting double strikes if you use them all, just so much better.

https://kitlaan.gitl...s=Miscellaneous

Edited by Wattila, 30 May 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Damn/bless you people.
Now I've only node-ed out 3 mechs (I'd do a few more but PGI won't let me apply HSP to my Quickdraws...fingers crossed for this evenings patch) but the more I look in detail at the node paths posted thus far, the more I am seeing areas where I have undoubtedly screwed up or at least been less than efficient.

So thanks for the education. It really is appreciated, even though it is making my lack of awareness and understanding of the nodes crystal f***ing clear.

[Wattila]

Bud Crue, on 18 May 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Damn/bless you people.
Now I've only node-ed out 3 mechs (I'd do a few more but PGI won't let me apply HSP to my Quickdraws...fingers crossed for this evenings patch) but the more I look in detail at the node paths posted thus far, the more I am seeing areas where I have undoubtedly screwed up or at least been less than efficient.

So thanks for the education. It really is appreciated, even though it is making my lack of awareness and understanding of the nodes crystal f***ing clear.

Applying SP to another duplicate fixed the issue for me, and I was able to skill the first mech. Let's hope the patch fixes the problem.

And yes, the skill tree is more like a jigsaw puzzle than checkers. I think there are already pretty standard patterns to get the key nodes from each tree. Firepower and mobility seem to have the least filler, so they're the logical place to put the leftover points.

[Mcgral18]

Bud Crue, on 18 May 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

I like your views here for a medium. And I think it applies equally to a fast heavy like some of my brawly Quickdraw variants as well...luckily I can't save their node-outs due to the dup error so I didn't screw them up by dumping everything into mobility as I had planned, and I can instead use this as a guide for a couple of them (if and when they get that error fixed).

One question: I am seeing a lot of different views on Seismic and Derp. Above you are suggesting that Seismic (as a medium brawler) is more important than Derp; in fact you don't even bother with it. It seems to me that in QP (at least before the skills tree) that Derp was far more useful in countering LRMs than Seismic was in detecting enemy movement in most circumstances (Mining and other select maps being the exceptions). Is this due to a change in the game (many are saying derp is now "useless", etc.) or are your experiences just different. As a scrub it is hard for me to let go of the mentality that I have to have Derp else suffer the wrath of the LRMers.

I rarely find LRMs to be a problem
I do my best to stick near cover, so they are worthless whether they have a lock or not. Derp won't save you from a UAV, but that wall will

Lurm ruining was never my preference for taking Radar Derp, but the big Flash and sound effect when you were targeted, and were lost as a target
It was a reverse-scouting tool, and powerful. If you saw/heard it, you know to turn around ASAP
The Lurm counter was just a cherry on top of that.


I've been hit with a couple more LURMs than usual, because I took a couple of the initial missiles before back-peddle+sidestepping caused them to miss me entirely.

I do miss the Ping, but I like the weapon quirks more.

Kiran Yagami, on 18 May 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

"Trading" is not how you win. I don't trade, and I think it's going to end up as a trade I don't take it. I shoot and then move back before return fire can reach me, and preferably before they even look to see where I'm shooting from. Then my next shot is free as well. Once it might be a trade, I change positions. Mobility is the only way to make trades free.

Good trades is exactly how you win
And...you describe a good trade

You dealing damage, and taking none, is a good trade
A Trade doesn't necessarily mean you take damage, but I can see why you'd think that (in a literal sense of the word)

[Bud Crue]

Wattila, on 18 May 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

Applying SP to another duplicate fixed the issue for me, and I was able to skill the first mech. Let's hope the patch fixes the problem.

And yes, the skill tree is more like a jigsaw puzzle than checkers. I think there are already pretty standard patterns to get the key nodes from each tree. Firepower and mobility seem to have the least filler, so they're the logical place to put the leftover points.

Tried 2 (of 4) 5Ks and 2 (of 5) 4Gs and none would save. Tried each day. Had no problem with my Illya (1of 2) or Jagger S (1 of 2). So I presume the error is exclusive to those wherein you have more than 2 dups.

Oh well.

I mean its not like they just introduced a system wherein they specifically said that one of the things they expect is that people would be duplicate variants rather than just respec. I mean if that had happened this circumstance would be OUT F***INGRAGEOUS! So, good thing that that didn't happen.

Edit: Alexander Garden in the hotfix thread says this is indeed getting fixed.

As to the skills branches. Yes I am still stuck in predisposed impositions of my own making and that is what I think is harming my capacity for proper/most efficient application of nodes. I mean I want certain mechs to be "tanky" or agile or whatever cuz that's how I see them in my mind. But unfortunately that is not how this game works and I need to stop thinking that way and instead build to the quirks and the actual math/capabilities presented by the mech (oddly this is in direct contraction to what PGI said they were hoping the skills tree would do, but whatever).

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 May 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Updated for Mad Dog build

Bishop Steiner, on 16 May 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

And here is the Clan Version:

MDD-Prime "LRM Doge"

the Mech:


The Build:

Spoiler

Firepower:

Invested heavily in firepower. Again, largely ignoring Range Nodes as much as possible, because even with the emphasis on Velocity Nodes, beyond 500 meters is a crap shoot, a waste of ammo, and leaves you unable to effectively use your lasers.

Being a relatively hot mech, emphasis was placed on Heat Generation Nodes, while Cooldown Nodes don't help the heat issues, they do bring your LRMs on line much faster, for more effective barrages. Missile Spread and High Explosive were also important to maximize effectiveness of hits, particularly to internals.

Laser Duration minimizes exposure for snap shots, allowing me to twist and spread damage better (in fact it might be worthwhile to grab the 4th, I have to decide if it is worth trading another Node elsewhere, most likely from Auxiliary Nodes)

It should be noted I did try using a TAG but being so low mounted, I seldom found it a help, and in fact more often than not had lower damage results and early deaths because of trying so hard to get a TAG Lock. YMMV. I'd kill for a head mounted energy slot so that I could mount a proper TAG on my MDD.

Survival:
I messed with survival nodes, but even when I had 3/4 of the nodes unlocked, I only added 5-6 armor to each ST, which in my cost analysis simply did not seem to be a worthwhile investment. So I ended up skipping this Web for this build, entirely. There are other avenues to enhance Survival, notably in the Mobility and Operations Webs.

Mobility:

Not a heavy focus, but a small boost to my Acceleration and Deceleration, and tiny bit to my Turning. Still enough to make a noticeable difference in handling. Would not complain about more, but as a primarily LRM focused build, it does not "need" high mobility, and the MDD chassis is decent as an 84 kph 60 ton chassis to begin with.

Jump Jets: N/A

Operations:

The Most Important Node Web. This is a given on almost ANY Build. Without Heat Containment and Cool Run, you will be running into overheat on most "effective" builds. I missed one HEat Contain Node because I was unwilling to pay the Gate Toll. Still, by following my Node Layout you will get maximum results with minim "waste".

Hill Climb is of limited use, mostly on Assaults, and Speed Retention... YMMV, but I seldom find it helps survival much once you lose an ST or Leg on a Clan XL, and of course, on an IS XL, you are dead. Maybe once in a blue moon it could be the difference between getting to the dropship with a legged mech in Scouting, but again, cost analysis deemed that too rare a scenario to be worth the investment.

Improved Gyros are absolutely worth it, so following those Gatess on the way to opening as many Heat/Cool Nodes as possible is the best way. Minimize that screenshake from incoming missile and ballistics DPS builds.

Quick ignition, is of course just what it says. If you run a fairly hot build, you will inevitably shut down... starting up fast is pretty important.

Sensors:

The heart and soul of any good LRM build, IMO.

A relatively inexpensive investment of 10 Nodes nets you; 35% more Sensor Range (which stacks with the Active Probe), 400m Target Retention, 35% increase to Target Info Gather, and 3.5 seconds of Target Decay, helping to target and lock mechs sooner, Identify the weak spots sooner, and retain those locks much more effectively with all the active and passive counters out there.

Given the relative inefficiency of LRMs vs Direct Fire weapons, and the duration of exposure required to hold locks for yourself, etc, this is often the difference between life and death.

Auxiliary:

For this build, these are largely optional, but unlocking the first Node in this Web is really a No Brainer. For some, it might be more useful to invest the rest of these Skill Points in other Nodes, like Mobility.

For the way I run an LRM Mech being able to plant a UAV is more useful for me than an Arty or Air Strike, so I used that route to unlock what I truly wanted, which as you can guess, was enhancing my Cool Shot profile. Again, when I get in a position to use both Missiles and Lasers effectively, I can run hot, fast. This helps mitigate that to some degree, and can give me that added endurance when I must have it.

If a person is more inclined to set beck with their LRMs, then enhancing their Strike quantity and efficacy may be more useful than UAVs or Coolshots.

Mech Build and Node Summary:

So, here you see the overall build. In this case I paired ERMLs with the LRMs for more effective weapon crossover. More heat, but when fighting at that 350-450 or so sweet spot, it absolutely enhances your damage profile.

Active Probe is useful for enhancing my Sensor Range further (pairing well with my Sensor Nodes) and also for diffusing light ECM use.

Results: (First Drop in MDD after Skill Node Assignment)



Single highest Match Score and Damage output I've ever done in my MDD. So, I think it works.

[Wattila]

Another build, on a roll here. This is meant for Locust PB, but could be any ECM/Energy light/medium mech.

EDIT: V2, I think this is strictly better.

Firepower (24 nodes): Get all laser duration nodes and as much heat gen as possible.

Mobility (28 nodes): Speed tweak and all the nodes you can get before running into torso yaw gates.

Operations (20 nodes): Get all heat containment and cool run nodes, both are confirmed to work after heat sink effects (EDIT: False, as of 5-23-20127, still works on base heat cap according to tests).

Sensors (18 points): Get enhanced ECM and full seismic. Picked the topmost target decay instead of sensor range so that the last point could be used on target retention (to keep a target locked while moving away).

Auxiliary (1 node): Consumable slot.

https://kitlaan.gitl...10e19&s=Weapons

Edited by Wattila, 22 May 2017 - 09:06 PM.

[Robaticus56]

Blackjack Laser Skirmisher

Here is a fully fleshed out build for one of my favorite mechs, the BJ-1X. This can also work for any other laser skirmisher/ striker (fast mech with lazorz) with a few minor changes. Most notably you can swap out the torso yaw nodes on the Agility tree for whatever else you want, the BJ-1X has horrible yaw

Here is the build for reference:
BJ-1X

Here is the skill tree:


Here is the idea behind the Survival, Operations and Sensor trees from my earlier post

Spoiler

Structure [25 points]:
Reasoning - This is by far the most important tree if you plan on being shot at, which is almost all mechs. Honestly you can't go wrong with this tree. This is a pretty straight forward tree, get the armor and structure nodes. The armor and structure nodes are your friends. Also don't get psyched out by the fact that the structure nodes are twice as much as the armor nodes. There is twice as much armor on a component than structure, i.e. the CT on a Grasshopper has 44 Structure and it has 88 Armor.
Extras - If you want some more armor and structure because you are brawling or on the front lines all the time, I would take the extra armor and structure nodes behind the reinforced casing nodes. Also feel free to take the reinforced casing nodes if you components are getting critted out all the time, this happens ALOT to the SRM-6's on my HBK-4SP. Since my main weapon is being destroyed before my side torso I would take the reinforced casing nodes. If you are running AMS and have 2 spare points invest them into the AMS nodes.

Operations [13 points]:
Reasoning - The main takeaway from this tree is Cool Run and Heat Containment. Cool Run increases your heat dissipation, that is, it increases the effectiveness of your heat sinks. Heat Containment increases your heat capacity, meaning you can rack up even more heat before shutdown. The other nodes are just extra goddies... except for speed retention, I don't like speed retention. By the time speed retention is used, when you get legged, 90% of the time you are destroyed shortly after anyway. You can use those points elsewhere with much greater effect.
Extras - Improved gyros is a decent skill if you are a brawler or on the front lines. Basically if you are going to spend extra points in the Structure Tree you should seriously consider improved gyros. If you have an itchy trigger finger and find yourself staring at a red cockpit (overheating) all the time then quick ignition is for you. Hill climb is meh.

Sensors [9 points]:
Reasoning - You want radar derp, unless you have ECM but thats another story for another day. Radar derp is useful for many situations, not just protecting yourself from the hellstorm of LRMs out there. It is useful for breaking line of sight so the enemy has to lock onto you again to see your weak spots. It comes back to the theme of staying alive. I ignored seismic because I don't think that 1 node is worth it and the cost is really steep to get both nodes. I would how ever definitely consider both seismic nodes for a brawler, if points allow.
Extras - Target info gathering is not the main priority but its unavoidable on the way to radar derp. And it is now even more useful due to the base targeting times being increased. Stay away from target retention, it's really only useful for tracking lights that are running around big mechs but there are much better ways to deal with that than target retention. Also ignore advanced zoom, if you need advanced zoom to see a target you probably are wasting heat and time by shooting at it. Maybe if you are really intent on using it for your ER large sniper, outside of that its definitely not worth the points. Sensor range is pretty meh.

Firepower
I went for as much heat gen as I could get while avoiding cooldown as much as possible. This mech runs pretty hot so heat gen is very valuable and cooldown is actually counter productive. I picked up laser duration because I'm all lasers. The additional range that was picked up along the way is also nice to have.

Agility
I went for speed tweak so I can push my little XL295 to the limit. Speed is life in a skirmisher. I picked up torso yaw because the Blackjack can't twist for sh*t.


I didn't take the consumable slot cause consumables cost cbills and I wanna buy mechs not cool shots. But if you aren't cheap like me go ahead and take it.

Edited by Robaticus56, 18 May 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[Robaticus56]

Wattila, on 18 May 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

Operations (11 nodes): Can't seem to find the points to put more than 11 here. Still, the 11 point budget path is most optimal.

I like your pathing better than my original one that took speed retention over hill climb. I feel better not having speed retention on my tree

[Wattila]

Hmm, PGI dev just confirmed Heat Containment also works off the total heat capacity of the mech (base + modified by heat sinks), so the Operations tree is a bit more valuable now.

[Lily from animove]

Is that the "I pay you to skill my mechs" thread?

[Bud Crue]

Lily from animove, on 19 May 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

Is that the "I pay you to skill my mechs" thread?

If that is how you want to think of it, sure.
I prefer however to think of it as the:

"Trying to entice players who have a clue and might not otherwise make the effort to share with all those people who are fed-up and overwhelmed by the "91 nodes -which do I pick minigame" but if I learn something along the way from it yes I will use that knowledge on my mechs thread."

Whatever trips your trigger.

[Lily from animove]

Bud Crue, on 19 May 2017 - 01:43 AM, said:

If that is how you want to think of it, sure.
I prefer however to think of it as the:

"Trying to entice players who have a clue and might not otherwise make the effort to share with all those people who are fed-up and overwhelmed by the "91 nodes -which do I pick minigame" but if I learn something along the way from it yes I will use that knowledge on my mechs thread."

Whatever trips your trigger.

well you should simply have waited until after the newtech implemention. it may shuffle quite some stuff.

[xengk]

- Vindicator Hero Support/Spotter -



Firepower

Spoiler

With only a pair of LPL and LRM5s, its job is to supplement an Assault or Heavy as follow up shot while the friendly cool off from Alpha Strike/Laser Vomit.
Aiming to remove exposed component or Kill Secure a red CT.
Taking all 3 Laser Duration let me further pin point LPL's 0.6s burn time.
Range node are pick up along the way to boost LPL range to 427m.

The LRM5 act as suppression and damage contribution to the frontline while escorting a slow friendly. Will sometime switch to change fire to blind enemy and cover a retreat.

Survival

Spoiler

As mention, it rely on being a low threat to survive instead of boosting armour and structure.
Objective is to acquire the 2 AMS Overload node, bringing AMS damage to 6.

Mobility

Spoiler

I only needed Kinetic Burst from this tree.
With no torso weapon, Torso Pitch is not required.
While Jump Jet provide better turning and twist, so I skipped Torso Yaw node.

Jump Jet

Spoiler

One of the 2 tree I almost max out.
Playing as a spotter, I need the extra lift and burn time to get onto high ground.
Jump Jet also let me spread damage and make tight turn in brawls.

Operation

Spoiler

Grabbing some Heat Containment and Cool Run with spare SP.
To maintain a good DPS with the LPLs.

Sensor

Spoiler

Fill out this tree to fulfill it role as a spotter.
Taking all 5 Target Info Gathering node, to quickly identify enemy loadout and damage profile.
All 5 Target Decay node to hold lock on enemy for friendly LRMs.
4 of 5 Sensor Range node boost radar range well over 800m for early detection on enemy movement.
Seismic Sensor at 200m to detect lights attempting to flank my Assault escort, or give them the thumbs up before turning a corner.

Misc

Spoiler

Spend the remaining SP on getting 2 UAVs and all UAV improvements.
Consumable loadout is: 2 UAV, 1 Coolshot.

Mech loadout
2 LPL as primary weapon.
2 LRM5 w 2t ammo as early engagement and suppression.
AMS w 1t to cover escort from LRM
TAG with range of 870m to mark enemy for LRM focus
4 Jump Jets for maneuverability
XL 200 engine going 72kph, just enough to keep up with Heavy and Assault mechs.

Edited by xengk, 19 May 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[lazytopaz]

Thoughts on B33F Executioner (6 SPL on punch arm, 2x LPL's in ST's) ? Go full heatgen + heat containment/heat dissipation+2xcoolshot?
Or maybe some better min maxing?
Having loads of fun on this one so far. Masc PUNCH, Masc Twist to cover, rinse and repeat. Profit.

Edited by lazytopaz, 19 May 2017 - 01:58 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Lily from animove, on 19 May 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

well you should simply have waited until after the newtech implemention. it may shuffle quite some stuff.

You've seen the forums. There are a LOT of folks who are desperate, who are considering leaving, and who are looking for some guidance. If by this thread we can help a few people NOW then I for one will be happy. Who knows, maybe someone else will do another update of this after new tech?

[Lily from animove]

Bud Crue, on 19 May 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

You've seen the forums. There are a LOT of folks who are desperate, who are considering leaving, and who are looking for some guidance. If by this thread we can help a few people NOW then I for one will be happy. Who knows, maybe someone else will do another update of this after new tech?

then also make some ingame advertising, the people needing it most are usually those not in the Forum.

[Bud Crue]

Lily from animove, on 19 May 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

then also make some ingame advertising, the people needing it most are usually those not in the Forum.

I've gotten the word out in the TS and mentioned it to others to spread the word, but beyond that...what else can I possibly do?

[Scyther]

86 Node "Maximum Cool" Tree

Playing some of my Assault/Heavy mechs, I found I could trim a little off Mobility, the 3 nodes of Auxiliary/Consumables, and 1 Heat Containment. I used those extra nodes (plus the 29 left over from my Baseline 62-node build, see 1st page of thread), to maximize -Heat Generation plus some Range and Cooldown in the FirePower tree, as these benefit all weapons systems.

I added 5 blue bars to Operations/Sensors pics to show nodes you can swap without changing the overall layout (if you want more Hill Climb/Speed Retention/Target Decay). I gave up 1 Speed Tweak, 1 Kinetic Burst, 1 Hard Brake, 1 Anchor Turn from Mobility.

The FirePower tree maximizes -Heat Gen, taking only Cooldown and Range nodes to unlock them all.
(With thanks to Jay Leon Hart for his suggestions in the FirePower tree.)

5 nodes are left to customize with. Sample suggestions:
-Buy 1 Hill Climb, 3 Heat Containment, and + 1 Consumable slot (for CoolShots) for the coolest of cool mechs
-Buy back the 1 Speed Tweak, the +1 Consumable slot, 2 Torso Speeds, and a Heat Containment
-Buy 4 Target Decays and a Cooldown node for a LRM boat
-Buy 4 Velocity nodes and a Heat Containment for a PPC boat
-Buy a Target Decay, 2 Seismic Sensors, 2 ECM Enhance for a... ECM Sensor boat?
-Buy Target Info Gathering, Advanced Zoom, and 3 Range nodes for a sniper build

5 nodes doesn't sound like much but the base build unlocks a lot of access in the trees.

Main Feature: -10.5% Heat, +9% Range, -6.75% Cooldown

Maximum Cool 86-Node Stats:


FirePower Tree, Max -Heat Gen, 32 Nodes:


Adjusted Mobility-Operations-Sensors Trees, 54 Nodes: