34 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Pjwned, on 17 May 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the intention is for you to have duplicates of a mech if you find yourself switching the loadout on it frequently, because that way you wouldn't need to swap stuff around.

That said however, being able to save equipment & module loadouts should have been added years ago, and now with the new skill tree there should be templates to easily save & load instead of making people go through a giant hassle every time they want to change something.

It's also unfortunately been a feature that's been requested for years and consistently ignored, so there's no reason to think it will be a feature in any remotely reasonable amount of time.

You see I don't get the logic on this. How many people really use multiple builds on a single chassis? My guess is a pretty small amount and then only for very specialized roles. Most people tend to experiment with a mech until they find a loadout that works for them and is enjoyable and that is the loadout they will use on that mech for the duration. Sure they might occasionally change things up but once they find that good build, things are mostly going to be static. So I just don't see how the skill tree encourages most people to buy duplicate mechs, not in the slightest.

On the other hand, I do understand why PGI wan't respec cost. They basically want you to grind, grind again and then grind some more to keep you playing the game. What they don't understand it grinding is boring and boring makes people quit. Also there is already plenty of grind in the game so we don't need any more.

Further this respec cost is just frustrating. I haven't skilled out a single mech yet because I know the second I do, I am locked into that build unless I want to spend hours grinding XP just to be able to actually repec my build and that is not counting having to buy new nodes that I didn't unlock with my free 91 SP when I tired my first build out. Those I am going to have to buy at 800 XP and 40k C-bills each so even more grinding.

[Eboli]

Maybe bought nodes remain bought, they just have to be "ticked" for activation for use. So, a player can "buy" all nodes for a mech, they remain "owned", but they just have to be chosen for that mech's specialisation

[Pjwned]

Wyald Katt, on 17 May 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

That's brilliant in that evil mastermind kinda way! Not helpful in the evil scientist experimenting with trying to get one mech working JUST right way tho.

If you're just experimenting then the XP costs are not at all prohibitive, but if you try to swap between multiple builds that you play regularly with only 1 mech then at that point you probably want a duplicate or 2 instead of swapping builds constantly.

Viktor Drake, on 17 May 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

You see I don't get the logic on this. How many people really use multiple builds on a single chassis? My guess is a pretty small amount and then only for very specialized roles.

Probably not many, but I know some people do that.

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Most people tend to experiment with a mech until they find a loadout that works for them and is enjoyable and that is the loadout they will use on that mech for the duration. Sure they might occasionally change things up but once they find that good build, things are mostly going to be static. So I just don't see how the skill tree encourages most people to buy duplicate mechs, not in the slightest.

On the other hand, I do understand why PGI wan't respec cost. They basically want you to grind, grind again and then grind some more to keep you playing the game. What they don't understand it grinding is boring and boring makes people quit. Also there is already plenty of grind in the game so we don't need any more.

I'm not saying I like it, and as I've said elsewhere I'd prefer to see no skill tree at all much less free respecs, but I'm not getting worked up about it either because it seems reasonable enough and obviously PGI wants to have enough crap for people to grind towards because that's part of the business model.

Quote

Further this respec cost is just frustrating. I haven't skilled out a single mech yet because I know the second I do, I am locked into that build unless I want to spend hours grinding XP just to be able to actually repec my build and that is not counting having to buy new nodes that I didn't unlock with my free 91 SP when I tired my first build out. Those I am going to have to buy at 800 XP and 40k C-bills each so even more grinding.

It takes about 1 decent match to get enough of both c-bills and XP to buy another skill point, and equipping another already unlocked node is half the XP cost with no c-bill cost, so unless you want to drastically change your build shortly after completing it then that doesn't sound so bad.

*shrug*

Edited by Pjwned, 17 May 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[Knight Lightning]

I am still a relative noob a this game, even though I bought it way back in September 2013, I just never seem to get the tine to play it. So I can get hammered a noob myself. I have always thought that the skill system was dumb, it is NOT the 'Mech that gains XP, it is the MechWarrior!

Jordan Weisman who created the original BattleTech TT game in in 1984. His idea for the Classic BattleTech game went something like this: The galaxy is trapped in a cycle of perpetual war, fought by noble houses with enormous, mechanized combat vehicles called BattleMechs. Take command of your own mercenary outfit of `Mechs and the MechWarriors that pilot them, struggling to stay afloat as you find yourself drawn into a brutal interstellar civil war.

Notice that it is the MechWarriors that pilot the 'Mechs and NOT the 'Mechs themselves. Which should be pretty bloody obvious! So instead of this rather, IMO, silly idea of putting points into a 'Mech, my silly idea is: you instead points into MechWarriors that you can then move from 'Mech to 'Mech with the loadout that suits the MechWarrior. That way each MechWarrior (after all, it is called Mechwarrior Online) gains XP, again NOT the 'Mech itself, which is like your car getting XP when you take it out for a spin...

In fact the new computer version of BattleTech, a turn based game from Harebrained Schemes led by Jordan himself is in the works. Well, actually you can fork out US$60.00 for get a very (and I mean very) limited Skirmish version of the game, with just four 'Mech lance. In that game you can move the MechWarriors from one 'Mech to another to suit your needs.

What do you think?

Edited by Knight Lightning, 08 June 2017 - 01:01 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

The advice I give is;

Run your mechs with no skill tree for a while, yes it is disadvantageous but it is productive and noobs have to do i too, so if they can you can.

Only skill up your mainly used mechs right now, who knows when/if the skilltree will change or if we will get refunds on spent SP if the tree does change. Also test out the skill tree first on mechs you have lots of historic XP on, my kdk5 for example had 91 sp and a million HXP, I have respecced in a few ways and still have some 700k HXP to spend on further respeccing for him if needed.

Take off your rose colored glasses when asserting that modules were better, better for who? You still couldn't just up and "experiment" with all the modules of the previous system for free... To do so would have cost you hundreds of millions of C-bills. In every way the skill tree is cheaper and easier for new players, the savings are generally in the dozens of millions per mech. Complaining that it costs you to respec is like complaining that you had to buy the hillclimb module to test how well it effects all your mechs, there was never a free testing period for skills/modules.

And lastly, work with minimum path numbers to start with, min maxing here is optimal of course, but you really don't need to spend your full 91 points immediately, even if you have a very good idea of what you want. For example; putting 6 in consumables, 13 in operations, 17 in defense, 21 in mobility, or any combination without or adding to for specific purposes gets you many very substantial buffs and leaves you with some 35 SP to go where you please and will serve most heavy and assault mechs extremely well without having to even spend the extra 35 points until further testing.

[PhoenixFire55]

What do you think the entire point of introducing the skill maze was? ... Customization? ... Pfff LOL.

[LordNothing]

dont use the respec button. just clear the nodes you dont want.

[Relishcakes]

osmosys, on 16 May 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

So I put a skill point in, applied that, and then respeced.

The node is still unlocked, but I have to pay to get it back either with xp or gxp.

I feel like the respec should be free. Now whenever we change load outs we have to pay to change the skills (but the nodes do remain unlocked).

Seems wrong to me. I feel like I get penalized for making a skill tree mistake, plus I can't test the tree in game. It's not flexible enough by far.

What does everyone else think?

A confirm button would be great in my opinion, so you can throw all your points and then look it over before finalizing. however there is bound to be at the very least ONE website that will allow you to take a look at all your options and save it as a side thing so you can reference it while doing your skill points. regardless it should not be free as that would trivialize the 91 point limit entirely.

[GomiNoSempai]

Knight Lightning, on 08 June 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

Jordan Weisman who created the original BattleTech TT game in in 1984. His idea for the Classic BattleTech game went something like this: The galaxy is trapped in a cycle of perpetual war, fought by noble houses with enormous, mechanized combat vehicles called BattleMechs. Take command of your own mercenary outfit of `Mechs and the MechWarriors that pilot them, struggling to stay afloat as you find yourself drawn into a brutal interstellar civil war.

Notice that it is the MechWarriors that pilot the 'Mechs and NOT the 'Mechs themselves. Which should be pretty bloody obvious! So instead of this rather, IMO, silly idea of putting points into a 'Mech, my silly idea is: you instead points into MechWarriors that you can then move from 'Mech to 'Mech with the loadout that suits the MechWarrior. That way each MechWarrior (after all, it is called Mechwarrior Online) gains XP, again NOT the 'Mech itself, which is like your car getting XP when you take it out for a spin...

It's a little more complex than that. I look at the skill tree to be that 10% on top. Every pilot has a favourite 'mech, it's one where they know the quirks and how to get the best out of it. The skill tree represents that. The top tier players could take any mech pilot it around the map and help win a game, regardless of the skill tree, because they know the game, mechs & maps.

To give a real world example look at racing car drivers in Fromula 1 vs Indycar vs stock cars. Each driver knows how to handle a car, but has specialised in to a single vechile.

Edited by GomiNoSempai, 21 June 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[spova]

This is the stupidest thing iv seen in this game. The entire point of every Mechwarrior game is that you can tinker around with the mech build. Player should be incuraged to swap things around and build up an inventory of parts to change out on the mechs. Instead we are hindered in making changes. I like swapping equipent just because I get board of the way a mech plays, that is a core componect of mechwarrior games. If it wasnt then we would just buy a mech (Character) set up like we wanted and then level that up in the stock configuration like most other games do.

[Foxfire kadrpg]

If I have an AC5 on a mech....

then I replace it with an AC2...

and then later decide I want to put the AC5 back on, should I pay for the cost of the AC5 again? Why?

How are skills something that requires re-buying, but we're allowed to keep a stockpile of unused weapons?

[Tarl Cabot]

spova, on 01 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

This is the stupidest thing iv seen in this game. The entire point of every Mechwarrior game is that you can tinker around with the mech build. Player should be incuraged to swap things around and build up an inventory of parts to change out on the mechs. Instead we are hindered in making changes. I like swapping equipent just because I get board of the way a mech plays, that is a core componect of mechwarrior games. If it wasnt then we would just buy a mech (Character) set up like we wanted and then level that up in the stock configuration like most other games do.

Previous MW game was a STAND ALONE game with multiplayer aspects. There were no microtransactions, etc. As noted in this following quote:

vandalhooch, on 01 July 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Your "solution" is based on not understanding how currency sinks work.

[Angel of Annihilation]

osmosys, on 16 May 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

So I put a skill point in, applied that, and then respeced.

The node is still unlocked, but I have to pay to get it back either with xp or gxp.

I feel like the respec should be free. Now whenever we change load outs we have to pay to change the skills (but the nodes do remain unlocked).

Seems wrong to me. I feel like I get penalized for making a skill tree mistake, plus I can't test the tree in game. It's not flexible enough by far.

What does everyone else think?

Yep this has been brought up time and time again but never addressed by the devs.

[Tarl Cabot]

Viktor Drake, on 01 July 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yep this has been brought up time and time again but never addressed by the devs.

PGI is not going to give something away for free, and for this they shouldn't. The player has to be aware that there is a price, albeit a small price, to regain what has been undone. It is along the same lines as when a player adds/removes Artemis, Endo, Ferro or change DHS back to SHS. There is a cost. With the previous Skill Tree is was an overall generic setup, it is was hard set once completed and gave specific modifier boots. The only thing players had control over were what modules skills to unlock and purchase to max, which was a one time affair, then to purchase the actual module itself and when to equip that module.

[James Argent]

I have a couple of builds I use on the same mech for different Faction modes/maps. Since the skill tree I haven't even bothered skilling it up for either build, but it's more a matter of me waiting around to purchase the second copy of it then building both. I don't have a huge problem doing this, but it's led to me not using the mech at all for now...which is the case for quite a few of my mechs.