10 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

I actually really like the new skill tree, there's so much variety that you can choose from
you can have Sensor/Durability buffs or you can have Firepower/Mobility but my only issue is
the 91 nodes...I honestly feel like the tree could use 6-12 more nodes to allow more "buffs".

What do you guys think?
too overpowered or unbalanced or just right.

[Scyther]

I think currently it is a fair limit. You can get close to the skills you had before, plus the bonus from about 3 modules, plus a few extra small bonuses, per mech. So the 'total mech boost' you can achieve now is about what a 3, maybe 4 module mech could get before. (Some mechs could equip more than 4 modules though)

I don't think a few more nodes would 'break' anything but they would lead to power creep, which is something the Skill Tree was designed to cut back on.

I did post in another thread that it would be interesting to unlock 'Mastery' bonus nodes to sort of represent the old milestones of Basic, Elite, Master on a mech. It would also provide more C-Bill/XP sinks for mechs you have maxed out. Something like:

Basic Mastery: Achieved when you unlock your first 26 nodes, allows you to purchase one additional skill node unlock (for 92 total). 25,000 XP, 25,000 C-bills
Veteran Mastery: Unlock 56 nodes, one additional skill node becomes available, 50,000XP / 50,000 C-bills
Elite Mastery: Unlock 92 nodes, one additional skill node becomes available, 100,000 XP / 100,000 C-bills
Champion Mastery: Unlock 124 nodes, receive one additional skill node, 150,000 XP / 150,000C-bills
Hero Mastery: Unlock 156 nodes, receive one additional skill node, 200,000 XP / 200,000 C-bills

Pros: It would reward people who play the heck out of a mech. It would provide a 525,000 Exp and C-bill 'sink' for some mechs. It would give anyone who mastered (91+1 node) a mech up to 95 nodes to work with. It would provide an additional 'play goal' without unbalancing things. It would give people something to do with 'all those extra GSP they can never possibly use' (for the people complaining about that).

Cons: It would widen the gap between vets and newbies, 'rich' and poor players (although the MM should reduce that somewhat). It would encourage people to play a lot on fewer mechs, to unlock the Champion and Hero nodes.

Edited by MadBadger, 16 May 2017 - 05:02 PM.

[Phalse]

I agree. There needs to be something to work toward beyond 91.

I keep thinking about a "salvage" tree or something, where you can invest xp toward basic/elite/master levels of equipping an opposite faction weapon system? Like, at basic, it's -20% range or something, elite is -10%, master is normal operation.

That's not an actual suggestion, just something I pulled out of the air to provide an example of an ongoing goal.

I mean, if all the weapon systems are balanced, it shouldn't have any real impact on game balance, right?

[Khobai]

the newest problem I have with the skill tree, aside from the obvious ones, is that 91 points isnt enough for some mechs. some mechs feel like they should get free skills. also ecm needs to be fixed...


trying to balance ecm by forcing mechs to put skill points in the sensor tree is stupid

whoever came up with that should be kicked in the balls

ecm should be balanced regardless of whether you put skill points into it or not. you shouldnt be forced to put skill points into something because its overpowered. it just shouldnt be overpowered in the first place.

Edited by Khobai, 16 May 2017 - 06:29 PM.

[dario03]

I think it should vary by mech for balance. Stronger mechs get less, weaker get more.
Or for easier balance changes the sections should have a skills multiplier. Average mechs should have 1x so no change, more powerful mechs should have lower, weaker mechs higher. So for example a mech that is weak might have a 1.1x in the weapon section, so all the bonuses get 10% stronger. Adjust multiplier and base node boosts to get balance. Also would be good for promoting weaker variants.

I also think some of the nodes should be merged. Like the weapon nodes that give effects to certain weapons should just be merged into one node. So duration, velocity, spread should just be one node. Maybe have a couple like that since there is also things like gauss charge and high explosive for missiles. I think that would help builds with varied loadouts because right now you need to spend more points than you do for mechs with just one type of weapon.

And move some of the nodes around so we can get what we want with less of what we don't. Doesn't have to be a straight line of min/max but a little closer.

Edited by dario03, 16 May 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[Athom83]

Khobai, on 16 May 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

the newest problem I have with the skill tree, aside from the obvious ones, is that 91 points isnt enough for some mechs. some mechs feel like they should get free skills.

On a variant level, one or two of the underperforming variants get a +1/2/3/etc node quirks... that's a pretty cool idea.

Khobai, on 16 May 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

also ecm needs to be fixed...
for example trying to balance ecm by forcing mechs with ecm to put skill points in the sensor tree is stupid
whoever came up with that should be kicked in the balls

They did it because of a lot of people complaining about ECM from one of the previous events. Mostly the streak-boats complaining that there were mechs they couldn't kill because ECM made them invulnerable to them.

Khobai, on 16 May 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

ecm should be balanced regardless of whether you put skill points into it or not. you shouldnt be forced to put skill points into something because its overpowered. it just shouldnt be overpowered in the first place.

Agreed. As a whole, the ECM system needs tweeking. Especially if they want to add other ECM variants in eventually.

[Khobai]

Quote

They did it because of a lot of people complaining about ECM from one of the previous events. Mostly the streak-boats complaining that there were mechs they couldn't kill because ECM made them invulnerable to them.

yeah but the solution to that is just make ECM not cockblock missiles

Guardian ECM isnt supposed to do that anyway

[sycocys]

In my opinion 91 is far too many, over buffed mechs were most of the problem to begin with.

Same massive power difference between new players and vets, just more convoluted to try to figure out now.

There is almost no fn way they will ever figure out how to balance that mess of a system once someone gets sober enough to realize that its just as bad as the old one.

I'm also willing to be that because of the above and their refusal to move from lore for weapon balancing in a game with no dice, that survivability node will be empty once people stop goofing around with it, weapons will have 40+, and there will be a spattering of the other nodes - so basically very little change from what pre-tree was.

[Angel of Annihilation]

MadBadger, on 16 May 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

I think currently it is a fair limit. You can get close to the skills you had before, plus the bonus from about 3 modules, plus a few extra small bonuses, per mech. So the 'total mech boost' you can achieve now is about what a 3, maybe 4 module mech could get before. (Some mechs could equip more than 4 modules though)

I don't think a few more nodes would 'break' anything but they would lead to power creep, which is something the Skill Tree was designed to cut back on.

I did post in another thread that it would be interesting to unlock 'Mastery' bonus nodes to sort of represent the old milestones of Basic, Elite, Master on a mech. It would also provide more C-Bill/XP sinks for mechs you have maxed out. Something like:

Basic Mastery: Achieved when you unlock your first 26 nodes, allows you to purchase one additional skill node unlock (for 92 total). 25,000 XP, 25,000 C-bills
Veteran Mastery: Unlock 56 nodes, one additional skill node becomes available, 50,000XP / 50,000 C-bills
Elite Mastery: Unlock 92 nodes, one additional skill node becomes available, 100,000 XP / 100,000 C-bills
Champion Mastery: Unlock 124 nodes, receive one additional skill node, 150,000 XP / 150,000C-bills
Hero Mastery: Unlock 156 nodes, receive one additional skill node, 200,000 XP / 200,000 C-bills

Pros: It would reward people who play the heck out of a mech. It would provide a 525,000 Exp and C-bill 'sink' for some mechs. It would give anyone who mastered (91+1 node) a mech up to 95 nodes to work with. It would provide an additional 'play goal' without unbalancing things. It would give people something to do with 'all those extra GSP they can never possibly use' (for the people complaining about that).

Cons: It would widen the gap between vets and newbies, 'rich' and poor players (although the MM should reduce that somewhat). It would encourage people to play a lot on fewer mechs, to unlock the Champion and Hero nodes.

This isn't true, not for all mechs especially some of the more heavily quirked mechs in the game. Also I don't know if this is true for any mech really.

For example I used Radar Dep and Seismic on every mech I owned followed by two or more weapons modules tailored specifically for the load out I was using.

Now though, just to get my mech performing up to par with what it used to have with the old skills, minus the weapon enhancements the modules gave me, I need to invest 87 points in Agility, Mech Ops and Sensors. Of course along the way I am getting the equivalent of a 360 target retention, advance target decay, hill climb, improved gyros and sensor range along the way but I didn't mount those modules before because I didn't feel they gave me too much of an advantage yet now I am forced to pay for and mount those to have radar dep and seismic at the expense most of the quirks I used to get and weapon enhancements. So sorry, I don't feel I am getting what the same benefits out of 91 skill points that I used to have under the old system.

Oh and lets not forget, with the old system I could swap out my weapons modules so I could experiment with different loadouts on my mech. Do that now and your screwed.

[Vellron2005]

I don't think the tree needs more active nodes, I think the tree should be such that we don't have to take nodes we don't want to get to the nodes we do..

If all the nodes were grouped linearly, we would still have a difficult choice between all the things available..

Sure, some would be favored, but every mech could be set up with exactly what you want, instead of a bunch of things we don't need..

Min/Maxing? Not really.. cose' we can min/max now also.. there's always "the most optimal build", but the current one offers wasted nodes..

It's like price inflation.. they are actually forcing us to grind more and pay for more..

[Johnny Z]

Its just right. After the new tech is in and this has had time to settle it should be excellent.

My only complaint is it should be full screen with page turning option maybe. But definately full screen.