42 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

FupDup, on 16 May 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Hill Climb isn't really useful on any build because of its mechanical design flaw. It just makes you decelerate slightly slower when you climb things. You do still however decelerate, so you're gonna hit 0 kph fairly quickly regardless.

If Hill Climb actually increased the minimum slowdown angle you could climb before getting the deceleration, then suddenly it would make a difference. For reference, the minimum slowdown angle is the main difference between the mech movement archetypes like "small," "huge," etc.

While that may be true, I'm moreover talking about the slopes that decel you but you're still able to transverse them. An example would be one of the ramps to the center of HPG Manifold. You slow down to a certain extent, which at times in battle is crucial....

Especially in NASCARwarrior. Assaults always get left behind and hammered in the rear torso like there's no tomorrow.

Edited by Scout Derek, 16 May 2017 - 06:34 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have spent the last 18 years or so gaining driving experience. I know that I will only have so much room in my brain and it takes time to learn auxiliary skills.

I know tht I used some of my limited experience resources learning how to time the flicking of a wiper switch to make the wipers move at an optimum rate for me depending on the rainfall rate. Kind of wasted experience if you ask me; I could have dedicated those neurons toward mastering gear shifts better. However, it just so happens to be one of the skills that I developed during he course of my driving history.

When we level our Mechs and "learn" how to pilot them our pilot avatars are just learning some skills that don't seem to have much flair behind them. I will admit that the skill tree does contain some stuff that I don't want outright that's in the way of what I want. But I don't care now based on the new tree.

I know that you need to unlock consumable nodes to get enhanced narc. I know you need to unlock "health" nodes to get advanced AMS. It's not a big deal to me since every one of my opponents are facing the same obstacles , and I do not in any way see it as a battlefield disadvantage as a result EXCEPT in the rare cases that this thread is about - non-applicabile nodes. Not what Fup is on about since that's not the thread topic. I mean UrbanMech Torso Yaw nodes, for example.

Here is my porposal (which will likely be unutilized): I think non-applicabile nodes should be unlockable for a standard cost, but not require a skill point.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 May 2017 - 06:43 PM.

[Khobai]

wow hypocrite much Bishop? you defended this awful travesty of a skilltree when people complained about good skills being walled behind bad skills.

now suddenly you have a problem with the exact thing you defended?

Quote

Here is my porposal (which will likely be unutilized): I think non-applicabile nodes should be unlockable for a standard cost, but not require a skill point.

And I think they should just get rid of this garbage and go back to modules

It adds nothing beneficial to the game whatsoever since all my mechs are using the same exact skill configurations. it doesnt promote taking different skills for different mechs... I take all the same skills for every mech regardless if its a light or an assault. the only variation is in what weapon nodes I take.

Edited by Khobai, 16 May 2017 - 07:13 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Khobai, on 16 May 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

wow hypocrite much Bishop? you defended this awful travesty of a skilltree when people complained about good skills being walled behind bad skills.

now suddenly you have a problem with the exact thing you defended?

No, he's not. Anyone with a brain and eyes can see that. This is not a thread about nodes being walled behind "bad" nodes or low-value nodes. This is a thread nodes behind dysfunctional nodes because they do not function on your Mech.

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 16 May 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

No, he's not. Anyone with a brain and eyes can see that. This is not a thread about nodes being walled behind "bad" nodes or low-value nodes. This is a thread nodes behind dysfunctional nodes because they do not function on your Mech.

Bad and low-value nodes are, for gameplay intents and purposes, nearly the same thing as nodes that are literally dysfunctional.

[justcallme A S H]

You wanted this skill tree.

You got it.

Lap it up.

[KodiakGW]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! "Just noticed this"??

How about Hill Climb and Advanced Gyros for Locust? It was able to climb hills fine before. I've seen it skate up anywhere in Canyon Network. If it stands still long enough to benefit from Advanced Gyros, it's DEAD!

Just, please. This is the kind of stuff players like me were saying was wrong before we were dreamed "toxic" by the lot of you who pushed for this. How about you check MY history.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah one user having to select something useless is no different to me having to select something useless.

Skill Tree brilliance.

[Khobai]

Quote

No, he's not. Anyone with a brain and eyes can see that. This is not a thread about nodes being walled behind "bad" nodes or low-value nodes. This is a thread nodes behind dysfunctional nodes because they do not function on your Mech.

its the SAME THING

having to spend skill points on useless nodes

[Scout Derek]

justcallme A S H, on 16 May 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yeah one user having to select something useless is no different to me having to select something useless.

Skill Tree brilliance.

meh, I'm just going to stay out of the war of "is it good, or is it bad" until things die down.

I'm just going to make do with what I can, adjust adapt, continue on with life.

If I don't like what's going on I always have other games to rely on while the game changes more until my return.

[Ruar]

The problem with the web design is going to be constant issues with mechs without hardpoints, without weapons mounted, without other items which cause the skill tree to force taking skills that provide no benefit.

Which is worse... a skill that provides no benefit or a skill that is not wanted for the build? In either case the player is being forced to take a node that has no benefit to their build.

Please don't sit there and try to split hairs about how benefit is defined. One is just as bad as the other..


And yeah, this was brought up time and time again by a lot of players and was ignored. The web design is bad, no one can provide a legitimate justification for choosing it over a linear design. The only reason we have a web is because the devs built it that way from the start and refuse to admit they've made a mistake.

[InvictusLee]

GOD YES. I hope PGI hotfixes this soon!!

While I really enjoy some of the torse/yaw nodes for my KCG, I dont need some of them when my main goal is to boost overall speed, not torso twisting or yaw.
The same goes for weapon specific nodes. I think the heat, and cool down nodes are awesome, but at the same time, I dont want to have to go through 6 of them to get down to the missile/general ballistics nodes.

3 out of the 8 of mechs I own (medium, heavy, assault. Gotta be ready at all times lol), run splat builds with A/C(s) or Lasers. Such builds require two different sets of weapons and the weapon skill tree seems to be set up specifically to benefit mechs that boat only one type of weapon. If I'm running both weapons, why cant I have cool downs for both like in the previous system? Why must I choose between them? Or why must I sacrifice mobility or survivability to get said nodes, so that my weapons preform optimally?

[Ruar]

November11th, on 16 May 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

GOD YES. I hope PGI hotfixes this soon!!

While I really enjoy some of the torse/yaw nodes for my KCG, I dont need some of them when my main goal is to boost overall speed, not torso twisting or yaw.
The same goes for weapon specific nodes. I think the heat, and cool down nodes are awesome, but at the same time, I dont want to have to go through 6 of them to get down to the missile/general ballistics nodes.

3 out of the 8 of mechs I own (medium, heavy, assault. Gotta be ready at all times lol), run splat builds with A/C(s) or Lasers. Such builds require two different sets of weapons and the weapon skill tree seems to be set up specifically to benefit mechs that boat only one type of weapon. If I'm running both weapons, why cant I have cool downs for both like in the previous system? Why must I choose between them? Or why must I sacrifice mobility or survivability to get said nodes, so that my weapons preform optimally?

Because they don't want you to be able to get everything. And we shouldn't be able to get all of the nodes we want.

The problem is the web designs forces players to take nodes with zero benefit. Whether that is because the mech lacks a certain item or because the player designed the mech around a certain role/build doesn't matter. The game is less fun anytime a player is forced to select a node that won't benefit their choice for a mech.

All 91 skill points should be spent on items that provide a return the player wants to have on their mech. That doesn't mean the player should be able to get all of the nodes they want, but every node they pick should be desired.

The only way to fix this problem is with a linear design. Sadly PGI has outright refused to switch to linear and the game will suffer because of this decision.

Edited by Ruar, 16 May 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[Cato Phoenix]

FupDup, on 16 May 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

Many folks kept trying to say that people shouldn't be forced to take skills they don't want/need. You're one of the ones who rallied against them the hardest. Reap what you sow.

Yea, I mean - it's not like we weren't saying this months ago.

[Lightfoot]

How about you get to skip 10 nodes? You choose which ones.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cato Phoenix, on 16 May 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

Yea, I mean - it's not like we weren't saying this months ago.

except, of course, you weren't, but I guess when one has an agenda, it's easy to dismiss very clear distinctions.

[Pjwned]

FupDup, on 16 May 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

It's not as different as you think.

The reason that you don't like having to take torso yaw on your Urbanmech is because it doesn't help you on that mech at all.

The reason that I don't like having to take Hill Climb, Speed Retention, etc. is because they don't help me...on any mech or build. Sure, they give "on paper" benefit, but in practice they are essentially placebos.

It's different enough to make a meaningful distinction though, and therefore different enough that somebody can say they're okay with 1 but not the other.

I don't agree with how PGI handled it but I can see why they did it and I can see why others would agree with them.

[Cato Phoenix]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 May 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

except, of course, you weren't, but I guess when one has an agenda, it's easy to dismiss very clear distinctions.

Are you sure about that? I would suggest gathering evidence prior to making claims.

Cato Phoenix, on 04 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

You do get some functionality out of the other nodes for picking up cooldown, but its just such a waste. I really dislike the buy unnecessary stuff to get good stuff (speed retention, shock, gyros - I like them all but I don't want them for -every- mech) and the buy unusuable stuff to get good stuff (missile spread without missile hardpoints, arm movement without anything to use in the arms, etc) is really untenable.

Cato Phoenix, on 05 March 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Filler nodes including skills that cannot apply to your mech.

We have things like heat generation locked down behind SRM spread - even if your mech cannot load out any missiles.

This would be like making a barbarian in D&D take combat casting to get cleave.

Cato Phoenix, on 02 March 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

I wouldn't like slashing the number of skills you get.

I don't like to have to get SRM nodes on my mech without missile hardpoints to fill out the tree.

In fact, that's from a thread completely -about- this issue:

https://mwomercs.com...ad-skills-pts2/

I'm sorry- were we supposed to specifically point out to you that torso yaw in your urbanmech was going to be useless? In bright neon letters?

That's something we all realized. I don't know if you were too busy trying to make amends for the skill tree - but we spent our time actually analyzing the outcome.

Here's the majority of the mobility tree without useless nodes for your urbie, btw. Otherwise you get to do what was being forced down our throats previously - take useless nodes to get good ones. (did I hear an echo???)
http://imgur.com/a/ePghB

Edited by Cato Phoenix, 16 May 2017 - 10:01 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Ruar, on 16 May 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

All 91 skill points should be spent on items that provide a return the player wants to have on their mech. That doesn't mean the player should be able to get all of the nodes they want, but every node they pick should be desired.

actually, I think if we got atleast 105-124 node slots, then maybe it would be alot more tollerable.

[Baba_Yaga]

No sh#t sherlock,but russ and crew have their heads shoved so far up thier a$$ they wouldn't know it!